Jan. 19, 2021

Mr. Freeze vs Doctor Octopus

Mr. Freeze vs Doctor Octopus

Huge thank you to Austin Sheeley, CJ Craft, Ezra Garcia, Jacob Bell, John Starosky, John from Yorkshire, Ken Johnson, Mark Davies, Michael Haggerty, Miggy Matanguihan, Richard McGrew, Shane Habazin, and Zachary Hepburn for the well wishes on this 5-year episode!

• 0:00:00 - Introduction • 0:04:05 - No-Prize Time • 0:09:38 - Zack Snyder confirms Justice League no longer a series • 0:13:27 - Ethan Hawke cast as Moon Knight villain • 0:15:16 - Question of the Week • 0:15:43 - Mr. Freeze vs Doctor Octopus intro • 0:18:48 - Doctor Octopus profile and powers • 0:27:01 - Mr. Freeze profile and powers • 0:35:16 - Fight speculation • 0:43:48 - Duel results • 0:47:15 - Sign off

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Executive producers: John Speas, Jace Crump, Ken Johnson, Isaiah Bethune, Zachary Hepburn, John Starosky and John Bechinina

Disco con Tutti by Kevin MacLeod Link: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3654-disco-con-tutti, Long Stroll by Kevin MacLeod Link: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3997-long-stroll, Night on the Docks - Piano by Kevin MacLeod Link: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/4131-night-on-the-docks---piano, Calmant by Kevin MacLeod Link: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3471-calmant, Take a Chance by Kevin MacLeod Link: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/4457-take-a-chance, Clash Defiant by Kevin MacLeod Link: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3510-clash-defiant, License: https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

#MarveVsDc #DoctorOctopus #MrFreeze

Transcript

[Music] hi and welcome to the dynamic duel podcast a weekly show where we review superhero films and debate the superiority between marvel and dc by comparing their characters in stat based battle simulations i’m marvelous joe and i’m his twin brother johnny dc and guys this is our fifth anniversary episode jonathan and i have been doing this show for five [ __ ] years it’s a long ass time it doesn’t feel like it yeah i feel like it’s not five years at all but a whole one seventh of our life has been dedicated to this podcast holy [ __ ] well when you put it that way life well spent yeah totally um since 2016 jonathan and i have been producing this show for the first two years on a bi-weekly basis and then since 2018 on a weekly basis we have yet to miss an episode release date you’re welcome we worked on this show while we were sick uh while we were tired as hell like now right but we enjoy working on this show so much it’s become such a big part of our lives and we just love sharing it with you guys the fans you guys definitely make all the hard work worth it and maybe we need a vacation i don’t know we don’t have one scheduled no i don’t know we want to reach out and give a big thanks to everyone who left us a voicemail on our website congratulating us on five years and also my jonathan’s 35th birthday which is coming up this week we’re gonna play all those voicemail messages that we received at the end of this episode as a way to share this monumentous moment with our fans thank you guys this has all been like a very big moment that i’ve been looking forward to and you guys and your comments just make it more special and for this special occasion we are going to find out who would win in a fight between the batman villain mr freeze and the spider-man villain doctor octopus in researching these characters we found out that the characters had a whole lot in common too much to ignore i know some people wanted to see mr freeze go up against like pyro or something like that but we’ve done the fire and ice thing several times now and i think it would be hard to kind of come up with more ways that fire could go up against ice so if you guys want to see that type of match listen to our human torch versus killer frost episode but really we were trying to find a good matchup for doctor octopus given that he’s probably spider-man’s biggest villain that we haven’t put in a duel yet yeah doctor octopus and spider-man himself are you know they’re pretty unique characters that don’t really have strong dc equivalents i thought mr freeze was a good matchup because even though he has mister in the title he’s actually a doctor and uh again like joseph said there’s a lot of similarities this episode of course ties into our last episode which was a review of the first spider-man film yeah so look forward to that match up later on this episode where we run the statistics on the characters and mathematically find out who would win before that we’re gonna break down the comic book movie news from the past week in which we had several news items including the report that zack snyder’s justice league is no longer going to be a four-part series on hbo max but instead it’s going to be one giant film which is really surprising that kind of came out of nowhere so we’ll be talking about that and we’ll also discuss that ethan hawke has reportedly been cast as the villain in the upcoming disney plus moon night television show as always we list our segment times in our episode description so feel free to check out the show notes if you want to skip ahead to a particular topic remember that this podcast now has a card game out called dynamic duel war and you can get it by joining us on patreon on any one of our tiers simply make a one-time donation of 30 dollars and we’ll send you the game if you want to have fun simulating battles between marvel and dc characters check us out at patreon.com dynamic duel and just a quick reminder guys to please subscribe to our show if you haven’t already and if you have please help us grow our podcast audience by leaving a quick rating or review on whatever platform you’re listening to us on or by sharing us with your fellow dc and marvel fans and with that out of the way quick to the no prize a no prize is an award that marvel used to give out up until the 90s to fans our version the dynamic duel no prize is a digital award that we post on social media that i personally draw for those who we feel gave the best answer to our question of the week last week’s question tied into the news that warner brothers will be releasing an animated justice league film this year so our question was what is your favorite superhero team that is yet to make a feature film debut let’s go ahead and break down our honorable mentions as well as the no prize winners our first honorable mention goes to paige barger who said that excalibur would be awesome but didn’t really think that that could happen until the x-men were introduced so it would have to be alpha flight which is the canadian super team consisting of guardian vindicator sasquatch puck shaman snowbird northstar and aurora paige said there’s lots to choose from for a team that could be different than the avengers and i have to agree even going with your excalibur answer considering the fact that excalibur has yet to be introduced in a movie i don’t discount that i think that’s a fantastic answer in addition to alpha flight excalibur is the british marvel superhero team and getting these like international teams out there i think would just be fantastic not only for the worldwide box office but also just a great way to get a feel for different locations within these marvel films yeah you know how marvel did like black panther that was mostly set in wakanda right yeah great answer our next honorable mention goes to jeremy orr who said that he would love to see a red hood and the outlaws movie specifically the rebirth version which consists of red hood bizarro and artemis it’s sort of like the dark trinity as it were and he says to get a darker version of batman superman and wonder woman would be great in part because bizarro is a character begging for the spotlight and i agree like bizarro should have been in a live-action film by now would you go like a funny route with him or like a scary route i would not do that no totally like frankenstein’s monster scary route yeah i think that’s the best version of bizarro yeah that’d be great you could get some comedic moments in there especially playing off of serious characters like artemis and red hood but for the most part he should be like a darker version of superman our next honorable mention goes to colby hinches who said that he knows it’s not going to happen but it would be a crazy ass movie if they adapted next wave agents of hate with members monica rambo boom boom elsa bloodstone machine man and the captain he says it was a wild book that would be heavy on visuals and although it was a short-lived team the next wave book that was written by warren ellis was fantastic i love characters like photon like machine man and the book actually introduced me to the character of elsa bloodstone who has also become one of my favorites she’s just so great she’s marvel’s premier monster hunter and we’re definitely going to get her in a duel episode of this year i’ve never heard of next wave but i know warren ellis is a pretty crazy awesome writer so i believe you and colby when you guys say that it’s awesome yeah you don’t have to call him next wave because the team name never really gained any traction but just a movie with those characters i think would be fantastic because the way they played off of each other in the story was hilarious and just they gave no shits it was great before we announce the winners of this week’s no prize we want to give a quick shout out to everyone who took the time to send us an answer including al gustafsson nightwing superman isaiah bethune shane habazzine adam spees dustin balcom john spees miggy managian joel seagrave hannah b robert leblanc sean tenny holy [ __ ] there’s a ton of these nathaniel wagner jeff miles jr iranigami richard mcgrew calvin mims still going jacob bell matt estes t l mont bailey ezra garcia zachary hepburn and finally mincemeat mouse thanks guys yeah thanks to everyone who participated that might be the most answers that we’ve ever gotten for a single question and all of them were great but the winners of this week’s no prize are michael hagerty and michael prince michael hagerty said that one of his personal favorite teams is the creature commandos saying that this could also introduce sergeant rock and east company into the dc eu monsters killing nazis can never go wrong he even mentioned that he and his buddy are writing a screenplay for the team i love the creature commandos they are definitely an underused team in dc comics it’s basically just a vampire and a werewolf and frankenstein’s monster and other monsters like he said killing nazis it’s it’s fantastic sold that sounds great i love the dc showcase animated short that they were in titled sergeant rock if they could expand that into a feature-length film that would be amazing yeah great answer fantastic answer i’m giving this week’s no prize to michael prince who said that he would like to see a movie featuring the annihilators which is marvel’s like cosmic team other than guardians of the galaxy but it features most of marvel’s cosmic heavy hitters including silver surfer gladiator beta ray bill i know ronin’s on there quasar anyone who’s anyone out there in the marvel cosmic landscape is on this team the only heavy hitters that were on there were like the members of the guardians of the galaxy if i remember correctly but seeing this team just like fly out in space and just kick ass is everything i want to see from a spacefaring marvel movie you have to imagine that you know kevin feige would eventually get down that road you know once they introduce characters like the fantastic four so they can segue into silver surfer and other space characters like that yeah congrats again to michael haggerty and michael prince for winning this week’s new prize if you’re the listener one shot at winning your own no prize stay tuned to later on in this episode when we’ll be asking another question of the week and now that that’s done on to the news [Music] so early last year we learned that hbo max would be releasing zack snyder’s cut of the justice league and it wasn’t long after that we also learned that it would be released as a mini-series in four-part like one-hour episodes or 45-minute episodes because the movie is apparently really long close to four hours it seems like a smart move on behalf of hbo max to get new subscribers considering that they could probably stagger the release over the course of you know a couple of months so they wouldn’t have subscribers drop off after you know a single month after watching the film but late last year we started hearing rumors that warner brothers was actually considering releasing this new cut in theaters as well i guess just to make some extra box office money off of the film to offset its extra cost of these new shoots and it looks like that was confirmed in part by zack snyder this past week through his vero account when he answered a fan’s question asking about whether his cut of the film was still going to be a four-part mini-series or a one-shot you know theatrical feature-length film and zack snyder said it was the latter now i’m not quite sure how i feel about this i was looking forward to you know having this be like a weekly month long event but i understand from a business perspective why warner brothers at least maybe not hbo max would want to release this in theaters yeah it does make sense from a business perspective the only downside being that four hours is a hell of a long time to sit through a movie i’ll do it heck i sat through like return of the king in theaters that was almost that long yeah and i guess avengers end game was just over three hours and what’s another hour i mean especially when things are freaking awesome on screen you know i’m just glad that warner brothers is actually letting zack do this because we know what has happened in the past when warner brothers has meddled before you know with long run times or with you know creative decisions story wise yeah that’s true and you could look at batman v superman dawn of justice as a president for that the ultimate edition cut of that film is i think three hours and it didn’t feel like it and it told so much more of the story that we actually needed to see in order to understand a lot of what was happening within the theatrical cut so this may be a similar case of that yeah where it’s better to present the whole story as opposed to chopping it up and making it more palatable for a wider audience because then if they do that we’re going to have a theatrical cut of zack snyder’s justice league and then another ultimate edition of zack snyder’s justice league and nobody wants that yeah yeah i’m all for this as long as they don’t release it in black and white that’s like my main concern because i know for a while they’ve been saying that yes they would do the four-part mini-series and then after that on hbo max they would also release all four parts cut together in one black and white movie which apparently is zack snyder’s preferred version i can almost guarantee that’s going to happen why because in addition to the box office earnings it seems the other reason that they’re doing this is to adhere to zack snyder’s vision of what the film is that being said if they announce that and then there’s enough fan backlash they may you know say psych and then release it in color anyway yeah i mean it’s the fans who got this whole movie made right around the whole world like this isn’t just a us thing i think another one of the reasons they’re doing this is so that they can release the film theatrically to all the zack snyder fans around the globe who don’t have hbo max yeah makes sense totally so right now the rumor is that the film will be released in march which seems really soon i don’t know if that’s actually going to happen you know with the ongoing pandemic and now these new strains and all the other [ __ ] and the fact that a few march movies like morbius that we’re gonna come out have already been pushed back because not enough people are gonna be vaccinated by march right but right now the rumor is that we’ll start seeing marketing material for zack snyder’s justice league film starting in february like a trailer like a new poster i can’t wait we’ll see if it actually happens in marvel news we learned this past week that actor ethan hawk has been cast as the primary villain for the upcoming moon night disney plus television series it was not announced what villain he’ll be playing just that he would be playing the villain and i like this because i’m a huge fan of ethan hawk i’ve loved his acting ever since gattica i think was the first thing i’ve seen him in he was in scott derrickson’s sinister movie he’s been in a lot of great films now in addition to ethan hawk being cast we also learned that actress mae kalamowi i think i’m pronouncing that right has also joined the series in an undisclosed lead role i think it’s pretty apparent that she’s going to play maureen alron who is mark spector’s girlfriend within the comic books she’s the one that really provides a lot of emotional support for mark spektor as he struggles with his multiple personality disorder she’s a great character i am really curious as to who ethan hawk will be playing he’s definitely not playing bushman who is moon knight’s primary antagonist you know he was the one that shot and nearly killed mark spector while they were in the egyptian temple where mark spektor was reborn as the champion of the egyptian god konchu why do you say that is ethan hawk not like buff enough to be like a mercenary guy no well i mean he’s not he’s not black oh buschmann is from a fictional african country called burunda wait isn’t burunda a real country no that’s burundi with an eye okay but yeah bushman ends up actually going back and taking over his country and becoming like the dictator for life before moon knight ousts him from the position okay well now i’m intrigued as to who ethan hawk is playing well there are several options you know moon knight made his first appearance in the werewolf by night comic book series so it is possible that ethan hawk could be playing jack russell who is the werewolf by night because ethan hawk kind of looks werewolfy you know are you saying he has a dog face i’m saying he could get a little scruffy sometimes you know okay he could also be playing any number of other villains and that brings us to our question of the week what villain do you think ethan hawk will play in the upcoming moon night television series yeah post your answer to our instagram twitter facebook or email us at dynamicduelpodcast gmail.com we’ll pick our favorite answer and draw that person at dynamic duel no prize that will post to social media be sure to answer before january 24th because that’s when we’ll be recording the next episode and i think that does it for all the news for this episode so let’s go ahead and get into our main event where we find out who would win in a fight between the batman villain mr freeze and the spider-man villain dr octopus let’s do it all right mr freeze versus doctor octopus it has been a while since we’ve done a duel episode yeah in that sense uh cheetah versus rhino yeah and since then we had the wonder woman 1984 review our brothers awards and the spider-man review so it’s been like a month really excited to get back into it and use our mathematical prowess to find out who would win between these two fantastic villain characters now why mr freeze versus doctor octopus well for several reasons the first being we couldn’t find a good matchup for doctor octopus and mr freeze was our likely best option considering that they’re both really popular they’re both scientists who gained their powers and horrible lab accidents they both have horrible romantic lives but are romantics at heart and they both have cool red goggles i thought dr octopus’s goggles were like green sometimes they’re yellow too but you know sometimes they’re also red who cares it’s a stretch i’m working on it that being said they also do seem to be very comparable powers-wise yeah they don’t have similar abilities like at all but they’re both pretty powerful yeah and i think it’ll be cool to see who wins so let’s go ahead and do that if you’ve never listened to one of our duel episodes before the way we determine a winner between these two characters is by running 1000 monte carlo simulations using their statistics what’s a monte carlo simulation well it’s a probabilistic model used to determine outcomes through random sampling in our case it randomizes statistics along a normal distribution which is a bell curve as a way to simulate the many variables that can occur during battle the stat parameters we use are based on the official marvel power grid and we use that criteria to extrapolate the dc character’s stats we’ve included some additional stat categories of our own such as range damage potential and perception in order to create a more complete and robust simulation running these 1000 simulations gives us a percentage of wins for each character and we declare the one with the higher percentage to be the ultimate victor given that they’re more likely to win any given battle no character ever wins  comics have shown that there’s always a way for like batman to defeat superman and we feel our method falls in line with the precedents that have been established in the comic book stories and we use this method because it was the least subjective most unbiased way to determine who would win of course we are both heavily biased toward our respective allegiances and instead of debating these matches forever we just let the math decide for us so there’s no fan votes here and no relying on just feats yeah because those could be inconsistent now before we run the simulations though we like to break down each character’s histories and abilities before improvising a scenario on how we imagine one of the 1000 simulations we run would play out b for beat so let’s go ahead and get into it i believe it’s my turn to give the backstory on the marvel character first so let’s go ahead and learn all about dr otto octavius aka doctor octopus otto octavius was born in schenectady new york to an abusive factory worker father and an overbearing but supportive mother although otto would regularly receive beatings from school bullies and his father his mother discouraged violence and pushed him to excel in school and not become a laborer like his father coping with his abuse through his mother’s belief that he would go on to do great things otto threw himself into his studies and earned a scholarship to mit he graduated at the top of his class with a degree in nuclear physics and was immediately hired by the u.s atomic research center auto engineered a chest harness that powered and controlled a set of four mechanical tentacle-like arms that assisted in his work handling radioactive materials allowing him to manipulate the dangerous substances from a safe distance the unique device earned him the nickname dr octopus among his peers but otto was more focused on one particular fellow researcher named mary and the two began dating in fact they were soon engaged when otto told his mother the news however she accused him of turning his back on and abandoning the only person who had ever cared for him riddled with guilt otto broke off his engagement with mary right before his mother died of a heart attack now without any family or significant other otto grew bitter and morose coping with his pain through his work though he was careless too while using his tentacle arm harness in an experiment he inadvertently caused a radiation leak that resulted in a massive explosion in his lab the radioactive blast fused the tentacle harness to otto’s body and mutated his brain granting him a technopathic link with his tentacles but also cursing him with irreversible brain damage that caused the once respected scientist to turn into a megalomaniac setting got to prove he was not a scientific failure he took control of a nuclear power plant in an attempt to continue his previously disastrous experiment spider-man showed up to stop him and although otto won their first encounter spider-man was able to beat him in their second and otto was sent to prison while incarcerated he became obsessed with defeating spider-man for daring to challenge him and after serving his short prison term he attacked his new nemesis at coney island unmasking him otto failed to believe that his nemesis could possibly be someone as seemingly meek as peter parker and he went on a rampage throughout new york city trying to call out the real spider-man he was again defeated and sent to prison where authorities learned a way to remove otto’s tentacle harness they didn’t realize though that his control over the arms were technopathic in nature and otto remotely commanded the arms to break him out from his cell oh wow realizing that the odds of defeating spider-man were greater if he teamed up alongside some of his fellow villains otto formed the sinister six a team that included himself mysterio vulture electro craven and sandman he tried to get them to gang up on spider-man together but they were all too vain to let anyone else claim victory over their foe so instead the sinister six set up a series of six challenges for spider-man to fight through in order to rescue the kidnapped betty brandt and aunt may dr octopus was the last villain spidey he had to face in the gauntlet and spidey nearly drowned being dragged down into a large aquarium by otto’s tentacles spider-man saved himself though by releasing all of his webbing into the water gumming up otto’s mechanical arms you can learn more about other sinister sex members mistrials in our flash vs electro duel and our scarecrow vs mysterio duel episodes although ant-may was kidnapped during that ordeal she found otto to be well-mannered and quite charming the hell and had no clue that she had been kidnapped at all later to spider-man’s shock otto attempted to marry ant-may in an attempt to gain her inheritance however their wedding was interrupted by a rival spider-man villain named hammerhead and their marriage never went through otto’s former fiancee mary later came down with a deadly virus and otto began stealing research materials in an effort to develop a cure he was unsuccessful in developing it in time and mary died before it could be administered he gave the cure to spider-man when the hero was inflicted with a similar virus hoping to cure him so he could later kill him himself interesting during the events of the superhuman civil war in which the hero community was divided over legislation to register with the government and reveal their identities to the public spider-man announced that he was peter parker this infuriated otto reminding him of the time in which he unmasked parker and the lost opportunity he had in that moment to defeat him however by this time otto had learned that his years of injuries and strain from using the harness has started to take a toll on his body and he was dying in his final months he convinced world leaders that global warming was accelerating then used an army of octobots to take over a space station and control a series of satellites that would incinerate a portion of the world’s population his plan was for the survivors to acknowledge his scientific genius and rebuild the scorched earth in otto’s image and never forget him although he had assembled a new sinister six to help keep spider-man from stopping him the avengers came in for the assist and the heroes defeated otto’s team in his dying moments otto used an octobot with brain swapping technology to switch minds with spider-man so that otto’s mind was now in peter parker’s body and peter’s mind was now in the failing body of doctor octopus otto killed his former body that peter was now inside but not before peter was able to reconnect their minds using the octobot so that he was still alive inside otto’s subconscious with his old body gone otto tried to prove himself as the superior spider-man establishing his own company as peter parker called parker industries he also had peter go back to school to earn his doctorate falling in love with a fellow student named anna maria marconi who reciprocated those feelings though otto relished in his time as peter seeing it as a chance to become a better man his new life would come crashing down in an attack by the green goblin then known as the goblin king who had managed to deduce spider-man’s new true identity and kidnap anna otto ceded control of his body back to peter acknowledging that only peter had the ability to save her and that he was in fact superior otto erased his consciousness sacrificing himself to save the woman he loved he was later brought back by the spider-man villain known as the jackal who cloned otto’s original body in an effort to get his assistance on a sinister project that would use cloning to effectively end death otto agreed having no recollection of his time in peter parker’s brain and that’s his history powers-wise doctor octopus has the ability to technopathically control the four prehensile telescoping titanium steel mechanical arms attached to a harness fused to his torso each arm ends in powerful pinchers that can grab and lift about 8 tons each though he does need to use one or several arms to anchor to the ground for support the pinchers can spin for a drilling effect or windmill effect and they strike with the force of a jackhammer the arms are individuelly pre-programmed to defend doc awk or resuscitate him if they’re ever separated from his body they can also extend to about 30 feet in length which allow him to make great strides while vaulting over obstacles or using them to run and he can reach running speeds of about 50 miles per hour otto is also a gifted intellect with a particular knack for multitasking he’s an expert in engineering and nuclear radiation and he will occasionally use octobots in battle which are robots he can control they have tentacle arms similar to those on his harness and he uses his technopathy on those as well yes correct though he won’t have them in this fight because they’re usually a pre-planned measure they don’t like follow him around like a dog unless he has a specific use for them good that’s great news octopuses not gonna lie freaky as [ __ ] yeah but doctor octopus is even scarier he will literally rip your face right off i mean unless you have like a protective dome around your head then you’re fine oh like mr freeze exactly yeah then again to his backstory originally known as mr zero mr freeze’s initial origin was that he was a victim of an accident while experimenting with the development of a cryogun pauldini and bruce tim reinvented the character for the batman animated series emmy award winning episode heart of ice and mr freeze’s origin in the comics was revamped his real name is victor freeze born to a wealthy family as a child victor discovered and became fascinated with cryonic preservation and he began freezing small animals so that they wouldn’t die horrified his parents sent him away to a boarding school as the winter holidays approached he learned that his parents disowned him he never saw them again and in his depression he became emotionless and detached from humanity focusing instead on his studies it was at the boarding school where victor first met and fell in love with a beautiful young woman named nora his cold outlook on life began to change when they started dating in college as victor was finishing up his doctorate the two got married though unfortunately nora was diagnosed with a rare terminal illness shortly after desperate to save her victor took a job in gotham city for a pharmaceutical company called goth corp he used the company’s equipment to put nora in cryostasis against her will until he could develop a cure for her the head of goth corp a man named ferris boyle found out about victor’s misuse of company equipment and cancelled victor’s funding victor refused to stop his research however causing gothcorp to go into debt furious ferris visited victor’s lab where he tried to remove nora from her stasis victor and ferris got into a scuffle and victor was accidentally knocked into and engulfed in cryogenic coolants where he was left for dead victor survived the accident however the chemicals mutated his body chemistry drastically lowering his body temperature and making him incapable of surviving outside of sub-zero temperatures victor escaped and went into hiding where he developed a refrigeration suit to keep his body cold along with a freezing cryogun in order to get revenge on ferris and recover his wife’s body adopting the identity of mr freeze victor attempted to kill ferris but he was stopped by batman who dodged one of frieza’s ice blasts causing him to accidentally hit and break open nora’s stasis chamber killing her frieze blamed batman for nora’s death and swore to destroy everything batman held dear namely gotham city mr freeze froze nora’s body to preserve her and unleashed frozen hell on gotham on several occasions managing more than once to accidentally have nora’s body shatter though he was always able to re-piece and freeze her back together again weird always defeated by batman freeze was often placed in arkham asylum or prisons such as iron heights highly intelligent however freeze always managed to escape his imprisonment and occasionally teamed up with other members of batman’s rogues gallery serving for a time as the penguins lead muscle he also later teamed up with black mask and nyssa algol the latter of whom you can learn more about in our daughters of the demon versus daughters of the dragon episode nissa promised freeze access to a lazarus pit in exchange for the construction of a sub-zero machine weapon to which he obliged freeze used the lazarus pit to resurrect his dead wife nora though she came back completely insane calling herself lazara and imbued with the powers from the pit including zombie reanimation and flame generation lazzaro blamed frieze for what she had become and nearly killed him in a fiery rage distraught at how his wife had been resurrected freeze was able to put nora back on ice with the help of cassandra kane who you can learn more about in our batgirl vs x-23 episode in post-flashpoint continuity after the flash reset dc’s canon freeze never met nora in school instead nora fields was the first person placed in cryostasis in the mid-1900s by her wealthy parents after she was diagnosed with an incurable heart disease after decades her care was eventually placed under the resources of wayne enterprises in a project managed by employee dr victor freeze who wrote his doctoral thesis on nora and became obsessed with her bruce wayne discovered and confronted frieze about his unethical obsession firing him from the project in anger freeze threw a chair at bruce who easily dodged it causing it to hit a cryo-chemical tank which cracked open and sprayed freeze altering his biochemistry like before freeze vowed to punish bruce for what he had done while attempting to steal nora from wayne enterprises in the rebirth event that caused the pre and post-flashpoint continuities to merge noro was once again frieza’s wife and with the help of lex luthor frieze was able to thaw and revive her though now nora suffered from the same necessity for sub-zero temperatures as her husband frieze enlisted nora in his crusade against bruce wayne and gotham and she took up the mantle of mrs freeze after a successful heist the two were able to collect enough money to fund frieza’s dream of running away together and starting a new life but nora relishing in her new power ended up rejecting her husband and left him to start her own criminal career frieze enlisted the help of batman to stop nora but ended up betraying him after batman stated that both frieze and nora would be imprisoned when this was all done with batman incapacitated nora injected freeze with a serum that further cooled his biochemistry requiring kim to be in an absolute zero temperature environment in order to survive nora escaped and batman placed frieze in an absolute zero crisis stasis chamber in the arkham basement where he remains frozen to this very day in the comics powers-wise mr frieza’s internal body temperature runs below freezing allowing him to freeze anything he comes into physical contact with whereas before he used an armored cryosuit to survive above freezing temperatures freeze has since injected himself with cooling nanites that keep him cool in any environment though he still wears armor and other equipment including a cold glove that allows him to quickly encase his arm in thick ice to use as a defensive shield or offensive club he of course carries a freeze gun that fires beams of cold capable of freezing objects to absolute zero which is negative 273 degrees celsius or negative 459 degrees fahrenheit he also carries ice grenades burfis’s most lethal weapon is his mind he’s a genius and foremost expert on cryogenics as well as mechanical engineering neurobiology and medicine okay so the version that i know from like the animated series where he wears this big bulky suit of armor this refrigerated suit that’s no longer the case yeah he used to wear a suit of armor that in the cartoon also mentioned that it made him like three times stronger that was never the case in the comics i mean he was slightly strong but not like three times stronger and he’s always kind of like upgraded his suit like you know one time when he was working for black mask he got upgraded suit that like made him like completely like bulletproof and stuff like that but nowadays you know his nanites take care of his temperature regulation it actually turns his skin blue oh it’s pretty cool and he still wears armor though yeah it’s a little bit more piecemeal i mean he doesn’t wear like a full like armored suit but he does wear bits of armor yeah good i don’t want him fully armored i mean when he was armored when he was in the refrigeration suit it would have been so easy i think for dr octopus to take him out because all he would have to do is crack his like dome piece i’m actually really glad that they kind of got rid of that in the comics it was way too big of a weakness for him gotcha all right now that we got their histories and abilities out of the way let’s speculate on how one of the 1000 simulated matches between mr freeze and doctor octopus will go the winner is determined by simulations not this speculation but it is fun to imagine how this fight could play out now we don’t set any rules for this match other than the characters don’t know anything about each other going in except that the other character is a threat that needs to be put down and we say that they start off about 50 meters apart in an environment that has no bearing on the match itself because we don’t take stats for the environment right and plus certain characters have advantages in some environments over others and we want these characters to win on their own merits so let’s get into it mr freeze doctor octopus they meet on the battlefield who goes first i feel like marvel characters have been going first a lot lately mr freeze is going to go first this time he’s going to toss a freeze grenade at doc just like instantly freezing him and the surrounding environment except dr octopus is gonna avoid this freezing grenade by using his tentacles to spring himself off the ground up into the air by like five stories leaping toward mr freeze okay but as doctor octopus is just like falling towards mr freeze in the air frieza is just gonna aim his gun at doc in the air and blast him except doctor octopus can shield himself from the beam in midair using one of his tentacles uh and yeah the tentacle is gonna get encased in ice or whatever but that’s fine because he stops three other arms as he’s coming down yeah he’s gonna land on the ground and then like slip onto his ass from all the ice everywhere i mean doctor octopus is no dummy like he knows what ice is he’s gonna see that there’s ice on the ground as he’s landing and that he needs to like support himself by like digging in with his pinchers as he lands so he like grips onto the ice to avoid slipping as he comes down onto the ground and as he comes down he’s just gonna slam mr freeze to the ground with one of his tentacles and just pin him holding him down okay but mr freeze he just grabs the tentacle that’s pinning him down and freezes it with his touch then he just slams his gun into it shattering the tentacles pinchers no but these pinchers are made out of titanium steel so i mean you’re not just gonna be able to just like shatter them mr freeze can freeze things to the point of absolute zero at absolute zero everything shatters not titanium steel i’m pretty sure even titanium steel well i’ll say that it’s probably easier to shatter the pinchers since they’re like on hinges and stuff like that than it would to actually shatter these like tubular titanium arms so yeah all right good move dr octopus now doesn’t have pinchers on one of his hands but big deal doc gets pissed though and he grabs mr freeze’s gun and starts just beating the [ __ ] out of mr freeze with his new stump arm just like a jackhammer and he brings mr frieza’s gun back to him okay so to defend himself from the stump tentacle he’s going to like ice up his gloved arm and creates this like massive ice gauntlet that he’ll use as a shield to block it now before doc ock’s tentacle can deliver him mr frieza’s gun though he’s gonna freeze the ground in like a path that leads straight towards doctor octopus and freezes doc ock’s body to the ground in like this block of ice oh he’s gonna do this with his ice touch yes yeah i’ve seen him do that in the comics okay doctor octopus is in a block of ice his tentacles are gonna like freak out and they’re gonna try to save their master by like drilling and chipping away at the ice before doctor octopus catches pneumonia and dies or whatever and so they’re like chipping away at the ice rescuing them from being encased okay but when they freak out they actually drop mr frieza’s gun okay so mr freeze is gonna slide over and pick that gun back up and then he just fires it at the tentacles who are trying to free doc ock and the tentacles are like oh no you did it and one of them just sweeps mr freeze off his feet and he lands right on his ass just as the tentacles finish chipping doc out of the ice and he breaks free that was quick well they move quick and they’re super strong so with mr freeze on the ground dr octopus just lunges all of his arms right towards him and grabs him but before they reach him mr freeze uses his gun to create like this domed ice barrier around him to protect himself from the tentacles okay big whoop the tentacles are just gonna drill into the ice dome you know all of them except for stumpy of course stumpy’s just kind of like banging on the side of the dome okay but little did you know mr freeze is actually generating like this freezing mist inside the dome reducing the internal temperature of it to absolute zero so as the drilling tentacles start to penetrate through the ice the mist will escape like a ruptured cryogenic tank and it’ll just freeze those tentacles preventing it from like drilling any further and keeping the end of the tentacle from like bending or really operating at all okay so what you’re saying is that these tentacles can’t penetrate this dome without getting frozen to [ __ ] exactly which is actually a pretty good defense so instead of like trying to pierce the dome he’s gonna use all arms together in unison as like a wrecking ball and just all strike together and just completely shatter the dome as opposed to piercing it so that the interior freezing mist dissipates as opposed to like shooting out like a ruptured cryogenic tank so this dome just collapses on top of mr freeze trapping him underneath all this ice rubble and with mr freeze like buried underneath all of this doctor octopus starts like grabbing and lifting and hurling these heavy ice chunks out of the way so that he could get to mr freeze and just rip them apart limb from limb okay uh okay so suddenly mr freeze is just gonna erupt from the ice he like aimed his gun straight downward and just like shot himself into the air by creating this like giant ice pillar okay ice pillar yeah like this massive  just stands at the very top of it and just starts firing down at doctor octopus [Laughter] well dr octopus he’s gonna start climbing up the pillar using his arms like like a spider would crawl up the side of a wall and uh he climbs up the pillar in like this spiral fashion so that he avoids the cryoblasts that mr freeze is like raining down on him and his stump arm is still carrying a big chunk of ice from the ice debris from the dome and he like uses the arm to hurl the ice chunk at mr freeze to knock him off his aim right as he approaches the summit of the pillar and dr octopus reaches the top and just grabs mr freeze no because as doc ock like gets close mr freeze just hops off the top of the pillar and like generates this ice slide that he steers into the base of the pillar causing the whole thing to shatter and doc ock to fall to his death oh [ __ ] i didn’t see that cone did you plan that heck yeah i did all right so this 20 story tall pillar crashes and falls with doc ock on top of it but to save himself dr octopus is going to create like this roll cage using his tentacles that like shield himself from like damage as he falls and from like anything falling on top of him so he just kind of like rolls like a ball out of harm’s way as he falls to the ground okay but once doc ock hits the ground you know and stops rolling emerging from this cage mr freeze slides over to dr octopus like at full speed on his ice slide with a spiked ice glove and just like plows into him killing him before he has a chance to react oh it’s like massive ice spiked knuckles kind of bigger think like twice the size of hellboy’s fist okay except dr octopus’s tentacles have really quick reaction time so as he’s about to get punched at the last second doc shoots his arms out and grabs each of mr frieza’s wrists and he stretches them out preventing freeze from using his fist or from aiming his gun and he uses another tentacle to just wrap around frieza’s neck choking him and then with his final stump arm he just freaking impales freeze right through his torso with the stump arm yeah dang okay but before doctor octopus can do that remember frieza’s iced glove arm was encased in this massive ice scotland so he just slips his arm out and grabs dr octopus’s face with his bare hands and like freezes it instantly and just shatters his head in his palm fatality i was going to say that sounded kind of sub-zero-ish of you [Laughter] i’m going to say that this [ __ ] that mr freeze can slip his arm out of this ice gauntlet uh i don’t think he can it just doesn’t sound right i don’t know i think mr freeze gets impaled before he can free his arm and frees doc ock’s head off and i say you sir are wrong well i say let’s leave it up to the simulations so let’s go ahead and run these guys statistics into our probabilistic model and find out who would come out on top [Music] all right that was a good matchup were you satisfied with the way that kind of played out i still feel like they matched up powers levels wise if not you know powers-wise i think both of them got just as good as they gave and i think it shows in the stats as well yeah they kind of went back and forth in the stats they both excelled in different areas but overall they seem to perform quite similarly for example we were saying that mr freeze is more evasive and durable not only because of the shields that he can create but because of the armor that he wears doc can also use his arms as shields but not nearly as effectively as mr freeze can create them yeah the arms aren’t quite as versatile as mr freeze’s you know freeze constructs but where dokgak shown was in strength and damage he can definitely lift a lot more than mr freeze and cause a hell of a lot of damage with those pinchers whereas mr freeze you know he can freeze things and eventually he can shatter them if he could get a strong physical blow with them but when it comes to physical damage doc just has a tentacle up on him as it were with all the concussive damage that he can cause but then you have mr freeze who has a higher range you know he’s all about freezing large areas very fast yeah he can definitely work the environment to his advantage really well he’s one of the best villains at doing that it’s kind of iffy because while dr octopus’s arms are like officially like 30 feet long you know it really depends on the artist who’s drawing him like they’re just as long as they need to be for the story that being said they obviously have their limits and those limits just don’t cover the entire area that mr freeze can affect and we said that they’re about the same when it came to intelligence they were both gifted geniuses so with all that in mind who do you think came out on top in this matchup i honestly have no clue i think it’s actually a pretty close match i can’t peg who is going to come out on top just from looking at the stats right just because they’re going back and forth so much exactly and our social media followers who participated in the polls that we set up  thought doctor octopus would come out on top and i wouldn’t be surprised if the results were around there or even closer but whether it goes to mr freeze or doctor octopus i i have no idea i really hope it’s mr freeze because he’s a really cool character dr octopus is just a fat guy with a bowl cut uh better a bowl cut than bald who’s to say let’s go ahead and find out because the winner of the mr freeze versus doctor octopus battle is it’s doc ock god dang it doctor octopus won 542 out of the 1000 simulations we ran whereas mr freeze only won 458 so that being said you know 54.2 percent is pretty close to the 57 that our social media followers thought it would end up at yeah i mean it’s more or less what i thought it was going to be i was just really hoping for the mr freeze w there so i bet you feel really bad now for calling dr octopus a fat nerd when this fat nerd totally beat the [ __ ] out of mr freeze he barely lost he barely lost nevertheless this is going in the record books as a win for marvel so uh take that all you uh dc fans in your face i laugh at you and we roll our eyes at you because we hate you uh well that does it for this matchup guys let us know what you thought about the results by writing to us at dynamicdulepodcast gmail.com or by visiting us on facebook instagram or twitter you can find links to all of our accounts by visiting our website dynamicduel.com and on our site you can also find a link to our patreon page where we offer bonus content and our very own marvel vs dc card game called dynamic duel war check it out right after this episode our lowest tier is only two dollars a month and also on dynamicdull.com is a link to our merch store where we sell t-shirts and hoodies and stickers and more with our dynamic duel no prize artwork now who are you drawing for this episode jonathan uh this episode i will be drawing dr octopus and i am not looking forward to those tentacles as i’ve said before tech is really hard to draw and i had a [ __ ] show of a time drawing brainiac’s tentacles when i drew him they’re just tubes with lines it’s easy oh yeah yeah tubes like moving in and out of like perspective and stuff like that with lines all over them not easy meh i don’t draw in our next episode following off this duel we will be reviewing the 1997 joel schumacher film batman and robin which of course infamously featured arnold schwarzenegger as mr freeze and i gotta say i’m not looking forward to it i actually watched the movie recently like last year and it was really hard to get through oh god either way it’s gonna be fun to tear apart in our next episode uh so look forward to that guys next week so that does it for this fifth anniversary episode we hope you guys had fun don’t forget to stay tuned after this episode when we feature all the awesome voicemail messages that you the listeners sent us in celebration of this momentous episode yeah thanks to everyone for the birthday well wishes and the congrats on our fifth anniversary it means a lot uh we want to give a big thanks to our executive producers ken johnson james crump john starovsky john spees isaiah bethune zachary hepburn and john bechy nina for helping make this podcast possible and we’ll talk to you guys next week up up and away true believers hey dynamic duel dudes it’s rick from the retronamopod congratulations on five years and happy birthday the old farts hey this is austin chile been a listener for years i loved every second of y’all’s content uh it’s really cool to see someone or two people have their dream be such a reality uh keep it up go marvel hey there it’s cj craft author of the bone chilling series three tales pages of terror i just wanted to wish the greatest podcast host in history a happy  and congratulations on your fifth year here’s the many more and keep up the great work guys loving the content what’s up brothers duel this is ezra garcia letting you guys know that i love the podcast love you guys keep up the good work and uh we’ll definitely be tuning in to future episodes from here on in love you guys hey you guys uh this is jacob bell i just want to say congrats on five years i think that’s awesome this podcast has been uh honestly a big part of my life for the past four years it’s gotten me through a lot of long drives to college and stuff and i just wanted to say congrats and tell you guys how much i love this podcast and uh yeah i don’t have long so let me say first things first happy birthday  doing better than the suicide squad marvelous joe and johnny dc batman and iron man can touch your legacy what comes this year i can’t wait to see oh and one more thing [ __ ] dc hi guys my name’s john i’m leaving a message from over in north yorkshire in the uk a big fan of the show loving the podcast love everything you do with the film reviews and all the insights but i particularly love those back stories as i’m constantly learning about new characters and learning new things keep up the great work fellas cheers hey guys it’s ken uh congratulations on five years and all the other unlockables happy birthday and i look forward to continue listening to how dc will rock the shop up up and away happy anniversary and happy birthday what’s up guys michael hagerty here uh new i grinded through your entire catalog this summer and i absolutely loved it keep it up congratulations and uh dc forever hey what’s up guys this is miggy just wanted to say happy birthday and congrats on five years of a great podcast hey johnny and joe zach hepburn i just want to say congratulations on five years hopefully we get enough five years at dynamic duel and uh marvel sucks dc rules [Music]