Ray vs Havok

This is a DynaMic Network Podcast. 

Hi, welcome to the Dynamic Duel Podcast, a weekly show where we review superhero films and debate the superiority between Marvel and DC by comparing their characters in stat-based battle simulations. I'm Johnny DC and I'm his twin brother Marvelous Joe and in this episode we are doing a duel between the characters of Rey from DC and Havok, Cyclops brother. 

Yeah, Havok has been part of the X-Men and X-Factor. He's probably the biggest X-Men character that we have yet to do a duel with, although you know we haven't done a duel with Kitty Pride yet so that needs to happen at some point. 

Oh totally. This episode is actually in lead-up to a future team duel we have planned between the Freedom Fighters and X-Factor since the Rey is a member of the Freedom Fighters. 

Yeah, you can expect that team duel next month I believe. It should be exciting to see who wins between these two energy-blasting characters but before that we're gonna break down the latest comic book movie news that came out this past week. 

Of which there was one news item and that was the release of the peacemaker season 2 official teaser. 

As always we list our second-hand times in our episode description so feel free to check out the show notes if you want to skip ahead to a particular topic. 

Our artificially intelligent duel simulator AJ9K has a quick message for our listeners so listen up. 

The X-Forced Tier gives you access to our Discord chat server, the Fantastic Four Tier gives you two bonus episodes each month and the X-Forced Tier makes you an executive producer of this show. Lastly the Diner Mike podcast network tier lets you create your own podcast using this Monte Carlo simulator. Johnny and Joe will help you develop your show, provide graphic support and consultation and get you simulation results. Pitch the twins your ideas via email at dynamicdualpodcast.com 

Thanks AJ9K and thanks to everyone who supports the podcast. Guys be sure to tune into the other shows in the Diner Mike podcast network this week including console combat where hosts John and Dean simulate battles between popular video game characters and yesterday's episode they speculated on who would win in a fight between Ellie Williams from The Last of Us versus Claire Redfield from Resident Evil. 

Also make sure to check out the Max Destruction podcast hosted by Scotty and Gilly who paint your favorite action heroes from film and television against each other. Their podcast and Senjo World the anime and manga battle podcast hosted by Zachary Hepburn are both on a brief season hiatus. 

Visit dynamicpodcasts.com or click the link in our show notes to listen to all the shows and the Diner Mike podcast network. But with that out of the way, quick to the no prize! A no prize is an award that Marvel used to give out to fans. Our version, the Dynamic Dual No Prize, is a digital award we post on Instagram for the person that we feel gave the best answer to our question of the week. 

Last week we asked you guys including Deadpool who should be on the roster for the X-Men Deadpool team-up film and this is coming off of the news that was reported by the trades that Ryan Reynolds has been tapped by Marvel Studios to write a movie that features Deadpool teaming up with three to four X-Men characters and this film would be one of two X-Men films set in the MCU that are currently being written. We got five answers this past week so let's go ahead and run down our three honorable mentions and the no prize winner. 

Our first honorable mention goes to Lorenzo Valdez who said, This is Lorenzo Valdez calling in again. 

My pitch for the roster for the X-Men Deadpool team-up film would be alongside Deadpool of course, Wolverine, Jean Grey and Cyclops and my idea would be that Deadpool would help them work through their love triangle while simultaneously providing fourth wall breaking analysis of the love triangle itself. Clonifer everyone always, bye bye. 

Yeah and I would actually throw in Emma Frost into the mix and then you could get Deadpool's commentary on this kind of love quadrilateral as it were. 

This almost seems like the premise for an adult film. 

Yeah it sounds like a parody of an X-Men Deadpool team-up but it made me laugh so you get an honorable mention. 

Great answer Lorenzo our next honorable mention goes to Travis Herndon who said, 

What's up dynamic dudes Travis here, shout out to me able to win so my choices would be Deadpool, Colossus, X-23, Silo, Nightcrawler and Warhead. I think that's a nice little mix with the old Fox X-Men and then you can introduce the new three new actors to play those three new X-Men characters. It could be a nice little mix. They can easily play off each other pretty good something similar to the Thunderbolt so that's it. 

Yeah I'm not sure who Travis is referring to the old X-Men and who would be the new but we know that Colossus and Negasonic Teenage Warhead have both been in the Deadpool films and then you have X-23 who's played by Daphne Keane, Silo who is portrayed by Olivia Munn in X-Men Apocalypse and Nightcrawler who of course was portrayed by Alan Cumming next to who will be reprising the role in Avengers Doomsday. There was also the other version of Nightcrawler that was in the first class timeline who was played by Cody Smith McPhee. 

I actually really like that lineup it's a really cool cast of characters with really cool power sets I would love it if that was the roster. 

Yeah I mean you have your strong guy you have your teleporter you have your psychic you have your blasty girl and then you have your stabby girl it works it works great answer Travis our next honorable mention goes to Mike Williams who said 

my roster for a new Deadpool movie would be Deadpool themselves Wolverine Bishop Warpath and Domino maybe revive the X-Force so that they don't all die at the end and maybe start an X-Force franchise that's my two cents as always make mine Marvel. 

Yeah this would be essentially a new X-Force movie with some of the characters that were in the Deadpool 2 film like Domino actually just Domino was part of X-Force in that movie but Warpath is a long-standing member of X-Force in the comic books and he was in X-Men Days of Future Past he would be a good addition here Bishop was briefly on the X-Force team in the comic books if I remember correctly I think he was on Storm's version of the team and then of course Wolverine obviously was on the Strike Force version of the X-Force team as well so yeah this is a pretty good lineup too I like the inclusion of Domino specifically. 

Yeah I felt like she was missing from the third Deadpool film personally. 

Yeah yeah same well I think the same thing with Cable too I think they all had pretty good chemistry in Deadpool 2. 

I just remembered that Bishop was also in Days of Future Past. 

Great answer Mike we want to give a special thanks to Kat Stevenson who took the time to respond with their answer they mentioned Cable, Professor X, Nightcrawler and Cyclops which was a pretty very team with an interesting mix of characters but the winner of this week's No Prize goes to Gavin Troyer who said 

I think the Deadpool team-up movie should be an X-Force movie with Deadpool's supporting character, Silak, Bishop, Forge and Wolverine played by a separate actor than Hugh Jackman and Deadpool's mini arc in the movie is to move on from Hugh Jackman's Wolverine and accept that this new actor can follow his footsteps. Also the actor who's playing Wolverine now should be Tom Hardy but anyways that's my thoughts. 

It's an interesting cast for Wolverine I don't know if the fact that Tom Hardy has played Venom would have any bearing on him being cast as an MCU Wolverine but beyond the Wolverine casting aspect the thing I liked most about this answer was the inclusion of Forge. Gavin's answer out of all the answers was the only one that included a new character from the X-Men comic books that we haven't seen yet adapted to live action and I'm a big Forge fan so I think that'd be really cool. 

Yeah if you're not familiar with Forge we did a dual episode between him and Mr. Terrific. His mutant power is essentially that he can create anything he can imagine like technology wise. 

Right exactly not as like a technopath he's also like engineer the parts and stuff like that but he makes like a great quartermaster I think for an X-Force team which was his role for both X-Force and X-Factor in the comic books and also I like the variety in this team I think it would make for a great X-Force film as well. 

So great answer Gavin you win this week's No Prize if you the listener want a shot at winning your own No Prize stay tuned to later on in this episode when we'll be asking another question of the week. Another that's done? 

A lot to the news! Okay last week we got the first official teaser for Peacemaker season two written by James Gunn the new head of DC Studios who previously wrote season one of the show along with the Suicide Squad film from which John Cena's Peacemaker character comes from. I loved the Suicide Squad I loved Peacemaker season one and I've really been looking forward to Peacemaker season two even though I've been kind of confused as to how it fits in the new universe that James Gunn is establishing considering John Cena's Peacemaker character comes from the DCEU. Well this trailer did not clear up any confusion whatsoever in fact it probably made me more confused but I'm also hoping that it clears things up once we finally watch the show. 

Yeah not to skip to the end of the trailer it does look like at some point Peacemaker goes into his dad's miniature universe of closets. 

Yeah his like pocket dimension where he's able to access the multiverse maybe. 

Yeah it kind of seems that way but in the beginning we get to see the new Justice League that's going to appear in the upcoming Superman film although the Superman movie comes out before this show debuts. 

Right Peacemaker goes to an audition in a rundown toy store to meet with Hawke Girl Green Lantern Guy Gardner and Maxwell Lord played by the same actors who play them in the Superman movie. During Peacemaker's interview they failed to mute themselves so they're just talking shit about him behind the glass and it's very humiliating for him. It was a somewhat humorous scene though I'm not sure all of the actors pulled off the comedy specifically Isabella Merced. We'll see how it goes. 

What's interesting is that Maxwell Lord could be twins with Calenderman as he was portrayed in the Suicide Squad film 

and he moves a lot like Weasel how weird is that. Now of course Maxwell Lord is played by Sean Gunn who yes did play Calenderman in the DCEU but he's moved beyond that. He's onto bigger and better things like the benefactor of the Justice League Maxwell Lord. After the opening scene for the rest of the trailer we essentially see the old cast from season one coming to terms with the fact that even though they saved the world they're getting no real recognition for it and in fact it looks like they're being hunted by Argus formerly run by Amanda Waller now run by Rick Flagg Sr whose son was killed by Peacemaker in the Suicide Squad film. 

It was a very powerful moment in that film so I'm glad they're still able to play up on that as they did in Peacemaker season one. We get to see Adebayo, Adrian Chase, AK, Vigilante, Harcourt, Economist all return they're all being their badass hilarious selves. 

And we get to see Tim Meadows as one of the agents of Argus it looks like. 

Yeah he's in the scene where he's giving nicknames and directions to his Argus crew and they're all fairly insulting. 

Yeah Mexicali, Ponyboy, Titties and Ceno Man I thought that was pretty good one. It was interesting to see Tim Meadows here who's primarily known for his comedic work but it seems like James Gunn has a pretty good relationship with a lot of SNL actors because we've seen him use like Pete Davidson as Blackguard in the Suicide Squad and Beck Bennett is going to be in his upcoming Superman movie. 

Yeah I'm a big fan of Tim Meadows from his SNL days it's great to see him on this cast surprisingly also we get a glimpse of Michael Rooker as a character that I have no idea who it is. Some people are saying Snowflame I don't know if I believe that. I definitely don't think it's Savant the character that the actor played in the Suicide Squad considering he's dead so who knows. 

Yeah James Gunn likes to work with a lot of the same actors over and over again Michael Rooker you know being the actor who played Yondu in The Guardians of the Galaxy movies but again we have this weirdness where Michael Rooker played Savant in the DCEU and he's playing this new character in this new version of the DC Universe but they could be like twins just like with this Shang-Gun situation it's a little bit confusing how they're going to pull this off although that's not to say that Marvel hasn't reused actors in different roles people like Alfred Woodard or something like that. 

Yeah or Gemma Chan. Right like I said earlier I'm hoping some of this confusion gets cleared up once we watch the show I'm definitely fully expecting to love this show and just find it hilarious and if things get cleared up in the midst of the fun of watching it that's just icing on the cake. The show premieres on August 21st on Max and we will absolutely be reviewing it once it wraps up 

but going back to our discussion of Tim Meadows that brings us to our question of the week. Cast any Saturday Night Live actor as a Marvel or DC superhero who would you cast and why? And portrayed characters in Marvel and DC the most popular of course was Robert Downey Jr who was a member of the cast for I think like a year but you know he's Iron Man so that doesn't count neither does Kristen Wiig who played Cheetah in Wonder Woman 1984 or Pete Davidson who again played Blackguard in the Suicide Squad. There's also Bill Murray who played Lord Krylar in Quantum and recently Shazir Zamata played Jennifer Kale in Agatha All Along. 

Would love to get your answers. Record them at dynamicdool.com by clicking on the red microphone button in the bottom right hand corner of the screen which will prompt you to leave us a voicemail. Your message could be up to 30 seconds long and don't forget to leave your name in case we include you on the podcast. We'll pick our favorite answer and award that person a dynamic duel no prize that we'll post to Instagram. Be sure to answer before May 17th. 

DC High Volume Batman. The Dark Knight's definitive DC comic stories adapted directly for audio for the very first time. Fear. I have to make them afraid. He's got a motorcycle. Get after him or have you shot? 

You mean blow up the building. 

From this moment on, none of you are safe. New episodes every Wednesday wherever you get your podcasts. 

But that does it for all of the news for this episode so now let's move on to the main event where we find out who would win between the Freedom Fighter Ray and the X-Factor member Havoc. Ray vs. Havoc. These characters were chosen by our executive producers to battle against each other because they're both energy emitters as it were. 

They're both fairly popular characters within Marvel and DC that for some reason we just haven't gotten to yet. 

Back when I first started reading comics in the 90s, Ray was all over the place. Not so much lately in the comics, but you occasionally see him from time to time. 

He has a cool look to him. So does Havoc I think. They both have pretty cool headgear. Ray has his like Spartan warrior style helmet and then Havoc has his like tri-pronged mask thing. 

Whatever the hell that is. That's weird. I never really liked his look. It's an interesting look but it's also a weird look. It's a unique look for sure. He did not have this look in X-Men 1st class when the character was played by Lucas Till. 

Yeah, he also showed up in X-Men Apocalypse where it was established that he and Cyclops were brothers. The way they portrayed Havoc's plasma blasting abilities in the movies was a little unique. You know, they made his plasma red probably so that it resembled Cyclops powers a little bit more, but traditionally Havoc emanates the plasma from his body like in all directions and it emanates in waves. 

And he's also not able to control that just like his brother Cyclops. 

Sometimes he is, but most commonly he wears a containment suit that helps him control and direct his powers. In a similar way that Cyclops wears his visor that helps him control and direct his powers. 

Now you've never seen the Ray in a live-action movie but he has been in the Arrowverse on live-action television and also he had his own animated series called Freedom Fighters the Ray, which is pretty 

Yeah, I never saw that but his power set is pretty cool so I bet you the action in that series is pretty well done. 

Yeah, both of these characters are pretty powerful so I'm excited to see how this is going to turn out. To explain the methodology behind our duels, let's go to our sentient duel simulator, Alfred Jarvis 9000. AJ and NK tell our listeners how you go about determining a winner in our duel matchups. 

Yes, of course, sir. The way I determine a winner between the contestants is by running 1000 Monte Carlo simulations using the characters statistics. A Monte Carlo simulation is a probabilistic model used to determine outcomes through random sampling. In this case, I randomize the statistics along a normal distribution as a way to simulate the many variables that can occur during battle. 

The stat parameters are based on the official Marvel power grid from which the DC characters statistics are extrapolated. Additional stat categories are included such as range, damage potential, versatility and perception in order to create a more detailed and accurate simulation. The results of the 1000 simulations provide a percentage of wins for each character. The contestant with the higher percentage is declared the victor as they have a higher probability to win any given battle. In an equitable pairing, neither character should win 100% of the matches. The comic book stories have shown that there's even a way for Batman to defeat Superman, so the confidence rate of my method falls in line with the precedents that have been established in the source material. My mathematical simulations are without subjectivity or bias. Feats are not the sole consideration, nor are fan votes tabulated for determination of the winner. 

Thanks, AJ and IK. Before we run the simulations, though, we'd like to break down each character's histories and abilities before improvising a scenario on how we imagine one of the 1000 simulations would play out beat for beat. 

And I think it's my turn to go first with the Marvel character, so let me tell you guys all about Havoc. Alexander Summers was born in Honolulu, Hawaii, one of the sons of Air Force Major Christopher Summers and his wife, Catherine. As a child living in Anchorage, Alaska, Alex was aboard his father's private plane with his parents and older brother Scott when it was attacked by an alien spaceship belonging to the Shi'ar Empire. To save their sons, Christopher and Catherine strapped Alex and Scott to the plane's only parachute and pushed them out before the plane exploded. The fall left Scott with a head injury and the boys were placed in an orphanage in Omaha, Nebraska. Unbeknownst to them, the facility was secretly run by the geneticist, Mr. Sinister, who was obsessed with the Summers bloodline. 

You can learn more about Scott Summers, aka Cyclops, in his duel against Negative Man, and more about Mr. Sinister in his duel against the Ultra Humanite. Alex was soon adopted by the Blandings, a couple who had lost their own son, Todd. Traumatized in wanting a replacement child, they raised Alex to behave like Todd. When Todd's killer returned and kidnapped Alex and his younger foster sister, the stress triggered Alex's mutant powers. 

He released a blast of plasma that incinerated the kidnapper. Mr. Sinister erased Alex's memories of the incident and suppressed his abilities, causing Alex to grow up unaware of his mutant nature or that he had a brother. After earning a degree in geophysics in college, Alex was kidnapped by Professor Ahmed Abdaal, also known as the Living Pharaoh, who discovered that he and Alex shared the same type of cosmic energy-absorbing mutation. Alex's presence prevented Abdaal from accessing his full power. By abducting and shielding Alex from ambient cosmic energy, Abdaal was able to transform into a giant entity called the Living Monolith. The X-Men arrived to stop him, and Alex's powers reawakened under stress. 

Though he couldn't control his abilities, he helped defeat the monolith. And afterward, Professor X revealed that Cyclops was Alex's older brother. Fearing the damage his powers might cause, Alex initially chose to stay behind in Egypt, but he was soon captured by the mutant hunting sentinels led by Larry Trask. Trask provided Alex with a containment suit and dubbed him Havoc. The suit helped regulate Alex's absorption and release of cosmic radiation, which his body naturally stored and expel in the form of powerful plasma blasts. After being rescued by the X-Men, Alex joined their ranks and trained to master his abilities. 

You can learn more about the team in their duel against the Titans. During this period, Alex grew close to fellow mutant Lorna Dane, also known as Polaris, who was the daughter of Magneto. The two became romantically involved and helped the X-Men repel numerous threats, including alien invaders and anti-mutant groups. Eventually, they left the X-Men to attend graduate school in Nevada. However, they were manipulated by the Shiar agent Eric the Red and temporarily turned against the X-Men. After being freed from their mind control, they recovered at Muir Island, where they later fought the reality-warping mutant Proteus. Alex eventually learned that his and Scott's father had survived their plane attack and escaped Shiar slavery to become Corsair, the leader of a spacefaring team called the Starjammers. During their reunion, Scott met Madeline Pryor, a secret clone of Jean Grey, at a time when he believed Jean was dead. Alex served as the best man at Scott's wedding to Madeline, and Alex later attempted to leave behind the superhero life. He was drawn back in, however, when Polaris was possessed by the villain Malice. 

Alex was unable to free her from that control and the experience left him frustrated and helpless. He continued to serve with the X-Men and eventually entered into a relationship with Madeline, who had at the time been abandoned by Scott when he learned that Jean was still alive. Madeline was then corrupted by demonic forces and transformed into the Goblin Queen, triggering a demonic invasion of New York. She manipulated Alex into becoming her Goblin Prince, turning him against the X-Men, until the conflict ended with her death, when Madeline learned that she was a clone. 

You can learn more about Jean Grey in our Raven vs Phoenix duel episode. To escape an ambush with the cybernetic villains known as the Reavers, Alex and the rest of the X-Men passed through a mystical gateway called the Siege Paralysis, which for a time left the world thinking that the X-Men were dead. They eventually reemerged on Earth, where Alex became a magistrate for the new mutant nation of Genosha. 

There, he helped build the Republic, led by Magneto, into a sanctuary for mutants around the world. Professor X later recruited Alex to lead a government sponsored mutant team called X Factor, where he was reunited with Polaris. Though effective as a leader, Alex struggled with team politics, romantic entanglements, and the apparent death of his teammate multiple man from the Legacy Virus. During a mission with X Factor, Alex was presumed dead in a time machine explosion. In reality, he was thrown into a parallel universe known as the Mutant X Reality, where he led a team called the Six, and was married to Madeline Pryor with whom he had a son named Scotty. 

Alex helped save the dimension from another iteration of the Goblin Queen before being cast into the void between dimensions, where his consciousness remained suspended until his eventual return to the main Marvel timeline, Earth 616. He woke up in his home reality, after which Polaris proposed marriage to him. Though Alex initially agreed, unsure of his feelings, he ultimately called off the wedding. Angered, Polaris attacked Alex, but the two eventually reconciled. Alex rejoined the X-Men during a time when most of the Earth's mutants had their powers taken away by the Scarlet Witch. Though Alex kept his powers, Polaris did not, and they left the team to be together. However, Polaris was later abducted by the ancient mutant Apocalypse, who re-granted her powers as one of his horsemen, and Alex fought alongside the X-Men to rescue her. 

You can learn more about Scarlet Witch and Apocalypse in their respective duels against Satana and Black Adam. Professor X soon recruited Alex for a space mission to stop Vulcan, the long-lost Third Summer's brother who had become a powerful threat that usurped the alien Xiar Empire. Vulcan killed their father Corsair, and Alex vowed revenge, taking command of the space-faring Starjammers to resist Vulcan's tyrannical rule. 

In one of their fights, Vulcan blasted Havok into a son, seemingly killing him. However, Alex's ability to absorb cosmic radiation supercharged his cells with a massive influx of energy that enabled him to survive the experience. Alex re-emerged with enough power to damage Vulcan's weapons and free his captured teammates. Returning to Earth, Alex joined X-Factor Investigations, a mutant private detective agency led by a multiple man who had survived the Legacy Virus. During the Avengers vs X-Men conflict, Alex sided with the Avengers and was chosen by Captain America to lead the Avengers Unity Division, an initiative meant to promote human and mutant superhero cooperation. During a battle with Red Onslaught, Alex was among several heroes who were morally inverted by a magical spell. 

Most were eventually restored by a subsequent spell, but Alex remained inverted. He resigned from the Avengers and joined Emmafrost, Bastion, and Mr. Sinister in a plan to spread a mutagenic virus called Mothervine, which would cause mutations in humans and result in mutant dominance on Earth. However, when it was revealed that Mothervine would also mind control all mutants, Emmafrost betrayed the group and psychically restored Alex's original personality. 

You can learn more about Emmafrost in our Poison Ivy vs White Queen duel episode. Alex died again while defending the X-Men from Sentinels, but was resurrected on the new Mutant Island nation of Krakowa through a process they could bring mutants back to life via a select combination of mutant powers. There, he joined the Helians, a new team led by Silak, where a variant of Madeline Pryor was killed on a mission. Alex pleaded for her resurrection, but was denied because she was a clone. 

Frustrated, he lashed out and destroyed one of Mr. Sinister's hidden labs on Krakowa, ending the villain's secret experiments. Emmafrost eventually persuaded the Krakowin Council to approve Madeline's resurrection. Although she and Alex reunited, she told him they needed space. When Alex sacrificed himself to defend her in a later adventure, Madeline used her magic to restore him to life in gratitude. 

And that's his backstory. Powers-wise, Havoc has the innate mutant ability to absorb ambient cosmic energies, including radiation, light, heat, x-rays, etc., which his body can store and release by converting it into plasma, which is a super hot ionized gas that ranges from 11,000 to 14,500 degrees Fahrenheit. Typically, the plasma emanates from Havoc in all directions, but by focusing, he can direct the blasts into directional beams, often while wearing a special containment suit. He can focus the amount of energy he projects from levels small enough to increase the surrounding temperature or powerful enough to disintegrate his immediate vicinity. In addition to his mutant power, he holds a degree in geophysical science and has received some hand-to-hand combat training. And that is Havoc. Wait, so he could absorb light? Yeah, basically, in small quantities. 

Oh, small quantities. Good. Cause he's gonna get so many quantities. 

Well, don't forget that he was thrown into a sun and managed to survive that, so you might have your work cut out for you. Hmm, we'll see. 

Let me get into the Rey's backstory. Langford, happy, Tarrell, was a reporter in the early 1940s who joined an upper-atmosphere balloon expedition sponsored by the U.S. government under the guise of scientific exploration. Unbeknownst to him, the expedition was a covert experiment by a government research group called RONAL, or Research on the Nature of Light, led by Dr. Dazel. Dazel believed that light originating from the birth of the universe would eventually circle back to Earth as a sentient destructive entity. 

And that only being composed of both human and light could communicate with it. During the expedition, Hapi was exposed to a burst of electrical energy and ambient sunlight from a detonated light bomb designed to give him energy-based powers. Surviving the quote-unquote accident, Hapi discovered he could manipulate light and energy, which he used to become the hero known as the Rey. He fought in World War II and joined the freedom fighters to combat access forces. During his early adventures, he battled threats ranging from mystics to metahumans and developed his skills as a light-wielding champion. 

He later fought alongside other Golden Age heroes in the All-Star Squadron. After the war, Hapi married his first wife, Gale, and had a son named Joshua. Joshua accompanied him briefly as his sidekick Spitfire, until the boy's unstable nature led to a violent episode in which he accidentally killed his mother. Unable to cope with his son's volatility, Hapi placed Joshua in suspended animation. Disillusioned and burdened by the consequences of his role in Dazel's plan, Hapi retired as the Rey in 1950. 

In the 1970s, Hapi briefly joined the freedom fighters before marrying again. When his second wife Nadine gave birth to a glowing infant, Hapi realized Dazel's theories had been correct. Bearing the implications of raising such a child, he told Nadine the baby had died and entrusted his son to his brother Thomas to raise as his own. The boy was named Raymond Terrell. Years later, Hapi was summoned by the freedom fighters leader Uncle Sam to seek out the mystical being known as Neon the Unknown, who Uncle Sam believed could help Hapi's son Raymond. 

You can learn more about Uncle Sam and his duel against Captain Britain. When Neon refused to help, Hapi drank from the mystic waters of Neon's oasis, an act that caused him to merge with Neon. Though Hapi as the new Neon was largely absent after that transformation, he continued to watch over his son from a distance. As Rey was raised by his Uncle Thomas, it was claimed that Rey suffered from a lethal light allergy. Confined to a darkened home and kept from the outside world, Rey was known to the public as Night Boy. On the day of Thomas's death, Rey learned the truth. He was not allergic to light, and his real father was the wartime hero known as the Rey. At Thomas's funeral, Rey met his cousin Hank, who helped him step into the sunlight for the first time, awakening his powers. Though initially reluctant to become a hero, Rey was soon confronted by Hapi, who revealed the truth about Ronal and Dazel's experiments. To prepare his son for a potential confrontation with the returning light entity, Hapi orchestrated a complex plan, using agents to pressure Rey into heroism. 

Ultimately, Rey ventured into the realm of the light entity and convinced it to spare Earth. Embracing his destiny, Rey adopted the mantle of the Rey and began his career as a superhero. He battled villains such as Dr. Polaris, Brimstone, and Lobo, and briefly worked under Vandal Savage's employ before breaking away. Following the death of Superman, Rey was recruited into the Justice League of America, where he served for about a year. 

During this time, he had a short-lived romance with Black Canary, who you can learn more about in her duel episode against Black Widow. He later joined the Justice League task force under the Martian Manhunter, helping to train younger heroes. Following the team's dissolution, Rey remained a reserve Justice League and joined the forgotten heroes to take down Vandal Savage. He later joined Young Justice, where he briefly ran for team leader. 

Though older than most members, he bonded with the group before later departing. You can learn more about Young Justice in the team duel episode between them and the Young Avengers. Rey was captured during a battle against the Nowhere Men, who sought to erase individuality. He was rescued during the fight and returned to his hero duties, joining a new incarnation of the Freedom Fighters. 

During an ambush by the Secret Society, most of the team was killed, and Rey was taken hostage to power a device meant to recreate the universe. He was freed, however, before its destruction. He reemerged with a new costume and defeated the rogue Stan Silver, who had stolen his identity. Rey joined the Reformed Freedom Fighters and helped counter various threats. During the sun-eating crisis, Rey masqueraded as a second son to deceive the threat and provide hope. 

He continued aiding the superhero community, including participating in operations against the Anti-Life equation. In post-Flashpoint continuity, Raymond Terrell was raised in a windowless home by his mother Nadine, who claimed he was deathly allergic to light. In truth, Rey's powers were latent and dangerous, passed down from his father, the original Rey. After an accidental flare-up of his abilities injured his childhood friend, Caden Zipodi, Rey became completely isolated. On his 18th birthday, Rey left his home and was struck by the lights of the city, triggering his transformation into a being of living light. 

He became invisible and remained in that state for four years, drifting through the world. One day, he saw Caden campaigning for mayor of Vanity, Oregon, and watched an attempt on his life by a member of the Sons of Liberty. Rey intervened using his powers to stop the attack and was dubbed the Rey by the press. He became the city's protector and was later recruited into Batman's new Justice League of America. With the league, Rey participated in freeing the hero Bloodwind, resisting reality-altering threats and serving as a courier during dimensional crises. 

He helped expose plots by the Secret Society, contributed to relief efforts after global disasters, and operated as a solo hero when not engaged with the league. And that's the Rey's backstory so far. Powers-wise, the Rey possesses the ability to absorb and process light energy, which fuels his superhuman abilities. He can project concentrated rays of destructive light, emit blinding flashes, and form solid light constructs similar to those of a Green Lantern. His powers allow him to create illusions, render himself invisible, and heal from injuries through photonic regeneration. Rey can also convert his entire body into coherent light, rendering himself intangible and immune to physical damage, while also allowing him to travel at light speed. And that's the Rey. That's a bullshit power set. Any more so than Havoc's? What? 

Yeah, he could turn into light and move at the speed of light. What is he, the Flash? All I know is that it's just like DC to name a character whose superhero name is the Rey as Rey. His real name is Rey. What the fuck? 

All right, it makes things easy. Way to go, DC. It's not like anyone's going to deduce his secret identity. When he goes into his like power mode, he turns actually all black, kind of similar to Sunspot. 

Oh, from absorbing all the ambient light energy? Exactly. 

Yeah, actually, his design was created by Joe Cassata, the former editor-in-chief of Marvel Comics. Oh, interesting. That is interesting. 

But now that we've got their history as a whole, we're going to have to go back to the way. Let's speculate on how one of the 1000 simulated matches will go. The winner is determined by simulations, not the speculation, but it's fun to imagine how the fight could play out. AG9K, what are the rules of our speculation? 

Well, I should say there are no rules other than the characters have no prior knowledge of the other going into the fight. All they are aware of starting out is that the other character is a threat that needs to be eliminated. For the speculation, the contestants will begin approximately 50 meters apart in a nondescript environment that will have no bearing on the match itself, as no environmental statistics are considered in my simulations. The contestants must earn victory on their own merit. 

All right then, let's get into it. Rey and Havoc meet on the battlefield. Who goes first? Actually, I'm going to say the Rey goes first because he can move at light speed since he's literally light and he'll start off by emitting these flashes of bright light from his palms that are going to blind Havoc and while Havoc is stumbling around, not sure where to aim, that's when Rey's gonna just straight up blast him right through his heart with the laser beam. Boom. 

But who needs to aim when you can blast in all directions at any given time? Like, Havoc doesn't need to aim, so like, sure, he may get temporarily blinded but as his eyes are recovering and before the Rey could even laser him, Havoc's just gonna release a plasma wave in all directions and that wave is gonna plow into the Rey and it's gonna throw off his laser beam while also incinerating him with 12,000 degree heat. 

No, because as the Rey gets blasted by the initial front of the wave of plasma, he's going to turn his body intangible and that's going to allow that wave to pass right through him before the Rey traps Havoc in a sphere of hard light and then just slam him into the ground repeatedly, knocking him silly and probably knocking Havoc out. 

Wait, wait, wait, I don't think the Rey can phase through plasma. Like, it's not some kind of like solid physical attack that's just gonna go through him. That's like saying Rey's gonna phase through the air that's around him. Like, the Rey would somehow have to physically remove himself from like their plane of existence or something to not be affected by the superheated matter around him. 

Well, yeah, plasma is matter. Rey can phase through matter. 

Yeah, but it's like highly energized matter. Like, it's atoms that become ions, essentially. So how can the Rey phase through something that's affecting his surrounding physical location? Like, if he were placed in a giant oven and the oven was turned up to 12,000 degrees, do you think the Rey could just phase through the heated air around him in order to avoid being baked? Because I don't think so. That's a good question. 

You know, he could always phase through the oven wall, but if it's too big for him to reach it in time, he probably would be damaged because he is vulnerable to energy attacks like heat. 

There you go. Exactly. So going back, no, Rey isn't creating any sort of hard light construct. He's fucking baking in his helmet. 

Okay, well, all right, so the blast would probably knock him out of his light mode, but once he reentered it as a being composed of pure light, he'd be fully healed once again. So that's when he's going to trap Havok in that sphere and knock him around. So he has like some kind of like light based healing factor? 

Yeah, exactly. He's a being of pure light. He doesn't have like a physical form per se, sort of. Like he was once shot in the back of the head and was told that he was going to be like paralyzed for the rest of his life, but then he just switched in and out of his light mode and he was fully healed. That's stupid. 

So you say that he traps Havok in a solid light construct? I don't even know what solid light is, like even conceptually, like what is it made out of? 

Like is this like maybe a photon's head mass? Whatever. 

I'm going to say that Havok is going to be able to blast through it with a focused plasma beam from his chest and it's going to go through the hard light construct and slam into Rey again since we've established that yeah, Rey is going to be vulnerable to plasma and getting hit is going to make him drop the construct. 

Okay. So the hard light sphere disappears, Havok lands on his feet under the ground and then he's going to blast a plasma beam downward to propel himself up into the air and just punch Rey right in his tangible face. 

Oh, sorry. When Havok was knocked around, you know, he lost his bearings and he didn't notice that the Rey he now sees is actually a projected illusion from the now invisible Rey who's actually behind Havok and he's going to fly into Havok at high speed and you just send him skidding across the ground. Okay. 

Yeah, that would probably hurt Havok, you know, getting hit at high speed would definitely mean that he's going to get up pretty slowly from the ground. But as the Rey flies in and tries to land a finishing blow, all of a sudden he just collapses out of the air like he's sick or something because as it turns out this entire match, Havok has been releasing like a low level of plasma throughout the environment that's been slowly burning and charring the Rey's body from the inside out like a microwave. And since we've established that intangibility isn't going to help the Rey here, his insides are basically charred like an overcooked steak and he falls to the ground dead. Okay. 

The problem I have is your use of the word slow. Like Havok stands up slowly, he's slowly been burning the Rey. The Rey is not slow. Okay. Even if he's damaged on the inside and maybe even is dying in less than a second, Rey could just slam into Havok, fly him into outer space at light speed and just cause Havok to freeze out there among the stars. 

No, no, no. Havok isn't freezing at any point. He could just keep himself warm with low level plasma and but can he breathe? No, but he's displayed the ability to survive for a short time in space like when he absorbed the power of a star in his fight with Vulcan. And this whole match he's been absorbing basically the power of a star by the energy that the Rey gives off. So, you know, Havok, he's amped up. 

He's doing just fine. He's going to direct a blast of plasma that sends him hurling like a plasma comet that slams right into Rey and sends them both creaning back into Earth, back through the atmosphere, the heat upon reentry. That's not going to matter, but they crash into the ground and the Rey just flattens on impact. And Havok, yeah, he's probably going to flatten too, but the Rey is going to flatten first and therefore Havok wins. 

Okay, well, I say the Rey is just going to phase through Havok at the last second and let Havok crash his own damn self into the planet's surface, just kind of causing himself. So, Rey survives, Havok doesn't match over. 

No, I think the Rey's body is too charred on the inside by this point to be able to do any sort of phasing. So, Havok actually wins. But we'll go ahead and leave the match there. It's kind of an interesting way to end this fight, but that's where we ended up. Let's go ahead and input the stats for the characters, run the simulations, and find out which scenario happens when we come back. 

A.J .9K, hit it! 

Inputting data, running calculations, processing results, simulations complete. 

All right, these guys are two definite powerhouses when it came to damage potential. They could both basically explode and destroy entire city blocks with their energy. Although we did say Havok was a little bit more powerful in terms of damage potential just because he can do things like melt adamantium, whereas we didn't think the Rey would be able to do that. 

No, yeah, Havok got the leg up when it came to damage, but the Rey was pretty off the charts in other stat categories, such as movement speed, evasiveness because of his intangibility, and even durability thanks to his healing ability. 

Yeah, we also said that the Rey was more versatile considering he can do all sorts of things with his energy-based powers. However, Havok is smarter having a degree in geophysical science, so he's got that going for him. And I think that his advantage and intellect and damage potential are enough to give him the win here. What do you think, Jonathan? 

I disagree. I think the Rey is going to take this match handedly, although our followers on Instagram disagree with me. In the poll that we put up, 57% of people cited with Havok. 

Damn straight. Very astute group of Instagram followers that we have, for sure. 

I doubt it. They're going to learn today. 

Don't knock our followers, but let's see who won. AJ and IK, the results, please. Hey, you are, sir. All right, the winner between the Rey and Havok is the Rey. Yes! Now, did I say his superhero name or his real name? Who knows? 

Because D.C.'s dumb. Yes, the answer is yes. At a 1000 simulated matches, Rey won a whopping 891 battles, whereas Havok only won 109. So, Rey had a win rate of 89.1%, whereas Havok only had 10.9%. 

So you're telling me Rey beats Havok 9 out of 10 times? 

Only because Rey is a cheater character who can do way too much and, uh, sucks? Yeah. 

I'll be honest, I did not think that the Rey was going to defeat Havok so handedly. I actually thought Havok was going to be a good opponent for Rey, but clearly we were all wrong. 

Yeah, it's a mismatch. It's a mismatch for sure. We never should have put Havok up against Rey. We probably should have put Havok up against, like, Robin or somebody. I don't know. I think that would have been a better matchup. So I'm going to say this one doesn't even count, right? 

Oh no, I'm sorry. It actually does count. Sucks to suck. 

I'm just going to forget this one as soon as this episode ends, which is right now. It's just going to be a bad dream, basically. 

It's your living nightmare, motherfucker. 

So that does it for this duel, guys. A.J. and I.K. help close this out. 

Our next episode is going to be another duel episode, where we find out who would win in a fight between Mary Marble and Hercules. But that does it for this episode. We want to give a big thanks to our executive producers, John Starroski, Zachary Hepburn, Dustin Balcom, Maggie Methangian, Brandon Esregard, Nathaniel Wagner, Levi Yatyn, Austin Wieselowski, A.J. 

Dunkerly, Nick Ibonto, Scott Camacho, Gil Camacho, Adam Spees, Dean Maleski, Devin Davis, Joseph Kirsting, Josh Schleiner, Mike Williams, Oscar Galvez, and Paul Graves for helping make this podcast possible. We'll talk to you guys next week. Up, up, and away. 

True believers.