Spider-Man Review - Special Guest Ready 2 Retro

hi guys marvelous joe at the top of the episode to let you know that next week’s episode coming out january 19th 2021 will mark the fifth anniversary of this podcast it’s a huge milestone for us we’ve been doing the show since 2016 right before our 30th birthday and this year we’re turning 35 so we are unlocking a few achievements here as it were we want you guys to celebrate with us by featuring you on the show if you visit dynamicduel.com you’ll see a red microphone button on the bottom right of the screen click the button and you’ll be prompted to leave us a voicemail message that we will include in our next episode yeah you could leave us a message saying congrats on five years or happy  or anything you want asterisk within reason for 20 seconds we can’t wait to hear from you the fans and have you as part of this milestone episode again just visit dynamicduel.com and click the red microphone button on the bottom right to leave us a voicemail and it does let you review your message before sending if you’re curious and don’t forget to let us know who you are can’t wait for this on with the show [Music] hi and welcome to the dynamic duel podcast a weekly show where we review superhero films and debate the superiority between marvel and dc by comparing their characters in stat based battle simulations i’m johnny dc and i’m his twin brother marvelous joe and in this episode we are going to do a throwback review to the 2002 film spider-man starring tobey maguire directed by sam raimi i’m surprised we haven’t reviewed this film before it is a big milestone in terms of superhero cinema i feel absolutely well we counted down the best of the 2000 to 2009 decade in our brothers awards from last episode so i was kind of feeling a little bit nostalgic wanted to dive into this hugely influential superhero film for my teenage years and to join with us in the nostalgia we’ll be joined by a guest to help us review the film max from the ready to retro podcast we’re huge fans of the show and max is a great guy and we can’t wait for him to join us it’s gonna be a lot of fun before we review spider-man we’re going to break down the comic book movie news from the past week including walter hamada’s extension as the dc film’s president through 2023 we also got our first look at the animated film justice society world war ii and joseph’s going to talk a little bit about marvel legends which debuted on disney plus this past week as always we list our segment times in our episode description so feel free to check out the show notes if you want to skip ahead to a particular topic remember that this podcast now has a card game out called dynamic duel war and you can get it by joining us on patreon join any one of our tiers which start at two dollars a month and you’ll see the details on how to get the game if you want to have fun simulating battles between marvel and dc characters check us out at patreon.com dynamic duel and check out the link to get more information about the game in our show notes just a quick reminder guys to please subscribe to our show if you haven’t already and if you have please help us grow our podcast audience by leaving a quick rating or review on whatever platform you’re listening to us on or by sharing this with your fellow dc and marvel fans we want to give a huge thanks to the guy who loves this podcast who reviewed us from ireland thank you very much for the kind words and we love your screen name but with that out of the way quick to the no prize a no prize is an award marvel used to give out up until the 90s to fans our version the dynamic duel no prize is a digital award we post on social media that we personally draw for those who we felt gave the best answer to our question of the week last week’s question tied into the new year of 2021 was what marvel or dc live-action film are you looking forward to the most this year we got quite a few answers but let’s go through the honorable mentions before naming the no prize winner honorable mention goes to cj craft who said that he is for sure looking forward to the shang chi movie nice pronunciation i’m still trying to get in the hang of not pronouncing it shang chi but cj said that he can’t wait to see what styles shangti uses in the film and he’s hoping for some very realistic fight scenes like the daredevil netflix show mixed with a bit of jackie chan environmental combat but really he just wants to see some good kung fu and so do i i’m really hoping that the fighting in that movie ranks among the best kung fu movies ever made at the very least like the best fight choreography of any superhero film absolutely yes it has to it has to our next honorable mention goes to bruce flansberg who said that he’s looking forward to any of them all of them he wants all of the comic book movies and really says he just wants good movies in his life again because  and we won’t soon forget that yeah at this point i really will just take anything like even the marvel legends show which i’ll get into later which was essentially just a couple of trailers for the characters i still ate that [ __ ] up because i was so starving for the content our next honorable mention goes to mike luther from the nerds united podcast who said that he’s looking forward to the eternals because he knows nothing about them but he loves the casting yeah and i’m kind of in the same boat i don’t know anything about them but that cast definitely has me excited for that film that’s like the only reason i’m excited for it what do you mean you don’t know anything about them we’ve talked about them a few times in the show and even then like there’s still a mystery to me all these different characters and i don’t know how it’s going to tie into the larger mcu it’s coming out this year and we still don’t have a trailer or a poster or anything for it well we’ll probably get our first trailer with the black widow movie that comes out in a few months or morbius oh yeah maybe before we announce the winners of this week’s no prize we want to give a quick shout out to everyone who took the time to send us an answer including i do have to say real quick though that uh i have to apologize to everybody who answered on the facebook post that jonathan made because i forgot to mention you guys in our last episode um it’s just been so long since jonathan actually posted the question to facebook that i forgot to check there you know so i’m still gonna blame him for this one no no this is on you i’m not taking that blame yeah my bad but big thanks this week to joel seagrave harrison fox john spees paige barger richard mcgrew mike myers love your movies rachel bernadowicz nightwing superman katie caldwell isaiah bethune shane hobazine and john strarovsky thanks guys so much for taking the time to interact with our show but the winners of this week’s no prize are mickey meredian and chris castaneda miggy gave the answer that he was hyped for the suicide squad because of the cast the level of production and the apparent faithfulness to the source material it’s a movie full of obscure dc villains played by great actors and from the looks of the trailer they spared no expense in terms of the action and visual effects most importantly to miggy it seems very comic accurate from the personalities to the costumes of the characters to the premise and function of the team it just looks like it’s gonna be a whole lot of fun damn it yeah damn it i can’t wait for that one either it looks like it’s just gonna be massive and i’m really looking forward to seeing the trailer from it and just getting more information about the plot in general i’ve heard everything from starro to the spear of destiny will be in the film i just i just don’t know what to expect in terms of the scope yeah and considering it’s going to be rated r i just feel like james gunn is going to bring it yeah i’m giving the no prize to chris castaneda who said that he’s most looking forward to the untitled spider-man 3 film primarily considering that toby mcguire is returning because his spider-man meant so much to him as a kid he remembers the day that he first saw the film in theaters with his dad and the day that he brought home the vhs tape with his saved allowance and how he would watch the tape every day for weeks after school and i chose that answer because i felt like it tied in nicely with the themes that we’re going to be discussing later in our review and remembering how influential the first spider-man film was to us as young children or teenagers or even older than that the movie wasn’t just important to superhero cinema but important to a lot of our memories yeah for sure i mean i’ll go into this later on in the episode but the spider-man movie hit me with a much higher factor of nostalgia than i was expecting so i totally relate to chris’s answer definitely so congrats again to mickey madden guillen and chris castaneda for winning this week’s snow prize if you the listener want a shot at winning your own no prize stay tuned to later on this episode when we’ll be asking another question of the week and now that that’s done on to the news [Music] okay so variety broke the news last week that walter hamada the president of dc films has signed a multi-year extension through 2023 to remain the president overseeing the dc film slate on hbo max and in theaters now he first joined dc films back in 2018 he took over for jeff johns and john berg who had overseen films prior to that so he started off with aquaman and moved on to shazam he came from a horror background and for those two films specifically he brought some of his horror directors they had worked with previously including james wan and david f sandberg and those two films specifically are some of my favorite dc films i think they’re actually the two best films that dc has made along with the joker which he also oversaw so news of his extension as the dc film’s president was really exciting to me and yeah there have been like a few balls dropped probably with birds of prey in one room in 1984 but i think for the most part he’s the kevin feige of dc films and it’s really good to have someone in that role now he doesn’t seem to be as big of a fan of the comic books as kevin feige is but he does seem to have really good business acumen yeah he’s he’s not as hands-on with the filmmaking either as kevin feige is kevin feggy’s a producer hamada is more of an executive producer i would say and the fact that he wants to bring so much more dc content to the masses it just shows his passion for getting these stories out to everyone you know who isn’t a big fan of this news oh ray fisher yeah the whole ray fisher kind of ordeal i think is pretty much coming to a close with this announcement yeah and it’s been going on for a while i respect definitely what ray fisher is trying to do if the allegations are as bad as he’s implying i’m actually really disappointed about the news that he won’t be returning for the flash movie because i was a big fan of his victor stone cyborg performance but it’s hard to know exactly what to make of everything when no details about what happened with joss whedon and jeff johns and john berg have come out you know if the allegations are that serious then this is huge henry fischer’s being quite the martyr for this important cause but if it turns out that the allegations weren’t quite as severe then it makes ray fisher kind of look like he’s throwing a tantrum or something is not going his way i’m inclined to believe the former but mostly i just want to really know what happened behind the scenes with joss whedon’s reshoots of justice league we do know some of the ramifications in that joss whedon was removed from warner media i mean that’s what ray fisher says it does seem like jason momoa has his back though yeah and i’m not saying nothing went down warner media did hire a third-party federal judge i think a retired federal judge to oversee the investigation and you know they said that nothing was too actionable based on the results of that investigation and some action has been taken and so they you know said to a variety that you know it’s just time to move on i think ray fisher kind of shot himself in the foot when he said that he would not take part in any film that walter hamada was a part of because he said that after the new york times expose kind of praising hamada and considering the success record he’s had with dc films i don’t think warner brothers was ever going to choose ray fisher over hamada right like ray fisher isn’t entitled to the role of cyborg and i think it was kind of foolish on his part i think he was probably just getting some bad advice from some people to throw himself into the bus and bite the hand that feeds him yeah considering that he wouldn’t be working with joss whedon or jeff johns or john berg on the upcoming flashpoint movie i think it would have been in his best interest career-wise to accept the ramifications of the investigation as they were and then continue to try to solicit change from within the industry as he was continuing to work in it and the weird thing is is that he kind of did like the the pinned tweet on his twitter account says that the investigation was complete and he was happy with it and then for some reason once the new york times interview with hamada came out he decided to open his mouth again and you know if you’re saying that you’re not going to work with hamada again on a film that hamada is knowingly going to produce you’re kind of you know resigning yourself from that role yeah it’s too bad because again i was a big fan of ray fischer’s work and i’m really looking forward to seeing the full performance in the upcoming zack snyder’s justice league hbo max series yeah i think ray fisher is a great actor and i think he was you know just getting started in the industry and you know based on his actions here i’m not sure who’s gonna hire him after this yeah i think he deserves more roles but we’ll see hollywood is very much a industry based on loyalty especially at warner brothers which itself could be kind of dangerous but uh it’s just kind of the nature of the beast moving on to other dc news i think it was the hollywood reporter that gave us our first look this past week at the upcoming animated dc film justice society world war ii i had no idea this was a project yeah me neither media there it looks like it’s gonna be starring wonder woman which kind of kills me because how cool would that have been to have the actual live-action wonder woman set during world war ii like the whole ww2 thing with cameos from the justice society that would have been a better sequel than wonder woman 1984 for sure it would have been amazing i’m always continuously like impressed and surprised by the moves that dc animation makes i wish more people watched those films yeah because they’re telling really great stories for sure and this one looks pretty interesting they recently retconned wonder woman’s history in dc rebirth so that she was like the very first superhero to emerge on the scene like before superman even and she was a founding member of the justice society alongside green lantern and the flash the golden age versions of those characters and it looks like they’re taking this same approach here in this film although it looks like green lantern won’t be a member of it the still image we got is pretty cool i think it’s going to be the same animation style as superman man of tomorrow it’s just very very clean but in that image you know we see wonder woman in like a golden age type outfit with the sword and shield we also see the flash hawkman arrowman and black canary but according to the article we’re also going to be seeing steve trevor iris west for some reason i’m not honestly sure why she’s in the movie that’s weird yeah dr fate and interestingly enough aquaman huh that’s that’s strange it sounds like this will be the start of a new reboot to a new animated dc continuity well no i think that was you know superman man of tomorrow but i do think that you know this obviously will come first chronologically i’m still not sure where batman soul of the dragon is gonna fit in if that’s in this new universe or not because that’ll be kind of like a cool origin story to batman yeah it’s a great point and something i didn’t think of considering that man of tomorrow was a superman origin film and it appears this just a society film will be a new wonder woman origin yeah it’s kind of cool how they’re tying all these other dc characters in with the origins of the trinity like you have martian manhunter for superman you have the justice society for wonder woman and you have lady shiva bronze tiger and richard dragon and all the other kung fu characters for batman i kind of like what dc animation is building here it’s like they’re all getting their own unique franchises before joining together hopefully in another animated justice league franchise yeah i can’t wait for that one the cast for all of these characters was also announced but of note matt bowmer who plays a negative man on the doom patrol live-action show for hbo max is going to be playing the flash and santa catic is going to voice wonder woman both of those characters voiced superman and lois lane respectively in the superman unbound animated film that came out a while back oh really yeah they look like superman and lois lane like they could totally play those characters in live action if they wanted to do we know when uh justice society world war ii is going to come out no i think it’s coming out this year but we don’t have a hard and fast release date i’m guessing probably by the fall if not sooner maybe summer whenever they announce these animated projects they tend to move pretty quickly yeah dc animation typically tends to release about four animated movies each year and we’re already getting our first one in a few weeks with batman’s soul of the dragon so i’d be surprised if we don’t see this before the end of summer between this movie and the upcoming black adam movie it seems like the jsa are really coming into their own huh oh yeah yeah definitely and i wouldn’t be surprised if they made this movie specifically as a way to introduce the characters to audiences you know before black adam the dc animation tends to be a good springboard in that way i’ve always been like a bigger fan of the justice league but the justice society is growing on me more and more those characters are just really cool and if you haven’t listened to our jsa versus fantastic four duel episode definitely check that out because that was a lot of fun the jsa is just a great team and it’s super exciting that they’ll be making their feature film debut with this movie and that brings us to our question of the week [Music] what is your favorite superhero team that is yet to make a feature film debut and we’re not referring to television series we’re referring to either live-action or animated full-length feature films post your answer to our instagram twitter facebook or email us at dynamicduelpodcast gmail.com we’ll pick our favorite answer and draw that person a dynamic duel no prize that we’ll post to social media be sure to answer before january 17th moving on to marvel news uh we finally finally got some cool mcu content on the disney plus platform now granted it’s rehashed footage but it does provide an interesting recap on the characters featured within the show’s episodes now marvel legends so far has two episodes one about wanda maximoff the scarlet witch and another about vision basically they’re about six to seven minute episodes that kind of montage the characters journey from their first appearance within the mcu up up to their current state at the end of events of avengers end game these montages are really well made in the way that really good trailers are edited together and it definitely gets me hyped for the upcoming one division show that’s going to debut this week this friday january 15th in a two-part opener each episode is going to be 30 minutes long so it’s kind of like one hour long episode but they’re breaking it up into two parts now i haven’t seen the marvel legends episodes yet but for someone who hasn’t seen any of the mcu films do you recommend that they watch these or should this only be viewed by someone who has seen all of the films that’s a good question um i would absolutely recommend them to people who have no knowledge of the mcu because even though you’re lacking a lot of context within the edits you get a good enough idea of who the character is and what they’ve been through it’s a long enough montage that you actually connect a bit with the character involved not as much as you would if you saw the entire films right but you know it’s a start regardless if you’re a fan who absolutely loves the mcu films or you’re someone that’s new to marvel in general i would recommend watching these shorts because they’re easily digestible at just six to seven minutes long each they’re informative if you’re not knowledgeable about the movies and they’re fun to watch if you’re fans of the movies so either way it’s a good time i guess just go into it knowing that you’re gonna get spoilers for the films you haven’t seen prior so if these trailers do get you excited for the characters for the films you won’t actually be surprised when you do watch the movies that’s true like you’ll already know watching infinity war what happens with vision and that thanos gets the mind stone and everything like that so in that regard spoiler alert but i think if you’re one of the people that haven’t already seen any of the mcu films by this point you probably don’t care if you get spoiled on the previous ones i actually think that the one division television show is going to convert a lot of people who haven’t seen any of the movies into the mcu maybe yeah i mean we’ll see how accessible the show is to to people who have no knowledge of the characters but i guess that’s what marvel legends is for exactly now i don’t think they’re gonna release any more episodes until probably the next disney plush show comes out which is falcon and the winter soldier and that’s gonna come out in march uh so we probably won’t get any more marvel legends episodes until then unless marvel legends decides to pull out episodes involving characters like quicksilver or anybody else that may be featured in the one division series would also be cool to put out shows for like iron man and captain america you know characters that really may not have much if any of the future in the mcu films going forward yeah that’s totally true i’d love to see that too but uh i think that does it for all the news for this episode so uh let’s go ahead and get into our main event where we review the 2002 film spider-man let’s go ahead and get our buddy max from the ready to retro podcast on the line because i’m ready to retro all right spider-man starring tobey maguire and directed by sam raimi came out in 2002 right as jonathan and i were at the we age of 16 years old it’s a movie that holds a very special place in my heart as it came out during a very formative time in my life when i was just starting to drive i just got a job was starting to get noticed by the ladies and the world was my proverbial oyster i think a lot of people in our age group remember this film as kind of the quintessential movie event in the early part of the new millennium and we have one such millennial joining us for this review please welcome a new guest of ours max from the ready to retro podcast hey how’s it going guys i’m super excited to be on today and i’m super excited to talk about spiderman yeah we are so excited to have you because we’re big fans of the show for those who may not know max tell us a little bit about yourself and your awesome podcast yeah so basically we are a podcast that just looks at the good times of the 80s and 90s so we look at the movies the tv shows the music the toys video games everything that’s nostalgic during that time it’s myself my cousin chris and our friend chelsea we just talk a lot about you know ninja turtles power rangers batman the animated series things like that there’s horror talks we’re all over the place and what’s super cool is we get to have awesome people and guests and we’ve met so many people through this medium and we actually had marvelous joe on early on in our podcast we talked to the matrix so be sure to check that out that’s episode 10 but yeah that’s basically ready to retro in a nutshell yeah that was a lot of fun recording that with you guys and you and chris and chelsea i think all have really great chemistry it’s obvious that you guys have been friends for a long time and i really like the way that you handle guests on your show i think you’re super hospitable and accommodating well i’ll uh reveal a little bit behind the mic so when joe came on it was still early on and we had some really bad audio things we’re still figuring things out and i was like oh this is so embarrassing so it took about like 30 to 40 minutes and joe goes yeah this is why we don’t have guests and i’m like oh crap this is a bad first impression this is terrible so i’m i’m i’m a little surprised to be honest that i got to be asked to be on your show so i i guess we uh we’re doing our job no yeah you guys definitely are love your episodes yeah yeah you guys do a great job that matrix episode was a lot of fun i really liked that one appreciate that big question that we asked all of our guests yes do you prefer marvel or dc uh marvel a hundred out of a hundred times hell yeah these days we’re gonna get a dc fan because everyone so far i think is chosen marvel no not jay oh that’s true yeah that’s true and that’s before the mcu you know a little history is you know growing up in the early 90s i was born in 1990 so x-men the animated series uh spider-man the anime series yes i watched batman but those three things like throughout my life those are the three stories that i’ve gravitated towards even reading comics and stuff and i definitely contribute that to to those tv shows but yeah spider-man loves spider-man yeah i think those cartoons were a big reason why x-men and spider-man were some of the earliest marvel comic book movies we got starting from the year 2000 absolutely now in regards to spider-man how old were you when this movie was released you said you were born in 1990 so i guess 12 right i was 12. yeah i was 12 it was like right after my 12th birthday tell us about your first time seeing this film yeah i i vividly remember seeing the second one in the theaters because my buddy and i were cracking up during the scene where you know spider-man’s being crowd lifted i don’t know we just thought it was hilarious there was people crying around and we were just cracking up we thought it was funny being 13. um so i’m trying to think i know i i’ve seen this movie so many times during that time and being 12 you’re kind of in that transition of like toys are they cool or they not so i remember having like a few action figures and i just remember like the toys were heavy for this movie the video game i had the video game i still have the video game for ps2 uh so i just remember like all that it was a big deal when this movie came out yeah spider-man mania really took over around that time that we were in our early teen years jonathan do you remember the first time seeing this movie oh yeah just watching it for the first time in a long time yesterday again i totally like had a wave of nostalgia just being back in the theater and seeing it for the first time and experiencing all the different moments and the different scenes for the first time just being blown away by it i definitely remember it yeah this movie came out when we were at our most active at our local comic book shop we were buying and reading a ton of issues at that time because i mean what else is a teen gonna spend their hard earned cash on right but we were consistently dropping by free time comics and one day they had a sign up saying that they were selling advanced tickets to a special midnight screening of the upcoming spider-man movie and i was like wait i get to see the movie thursday night hours before anyone else because you know midnight shows weren’t really a thing yet by that point i miss those a lot yeah i miss those yeah so much yeah yeah it was an event and it’s just not a thing anymore oh yeah and it was only like the true die hard fans that were there too which just made the experience so much better absolutely yeah i was like shut up and take my money and so i bought tickets and uh we got to the theater a few weeks later and i was wearing my spiderman shirt and jonathan was wearing his superman t-shirt in protest and all these other comic shop patrons were lined up and the excitement in the air was like electric when we took our seats and i remember the previews came on and we got to see that teaser trailer for the 2003 hulk movie with eric banner where his eyes turned green while looking in the mirror right that came on and like everybody was roaring like we were charging into battle we just went [ __ ] crazy everybody was yelling but then they all shut the hell up when those first violin notes started playing from danny elfman’s score it was just a hush that went over the theater and we saw the new marvel logo and that amazing opening credits animation and it just went from there it was a great time to be alive for sure typically bigger movies don’t have opening credits anymore but this really made me appreciate what you could do with opening credits the opening credits for this film with the score with the animated visuals it was so cool and it totally set the mood i think for the film yet considering we don’t see spider-man in costume until about halfway through the movie it was a great way to get a taste of what was to come with his costume and the green goblin mask and going through the city and stuff yeah you’re making a good point because now i think like end game it just goes straight into the story right and the whole thing about the credits is to get the vibe and the feel you know it’s so funny because when i was watching this and like you johnny it’s been a while since i’ve seen this movie so it was a little bit more nostalgic but i was just thinking about man like that danny elf score i was like i was waiting for batman i don’t know just when i was watching it this time it was very apparent it was danny elfman as a kid you know it totally went over my head but i’m just like you know when’s bruce wayne gonna be in this movie yeah he definitely has his own like signature style i don’t know what it is but you’re right his scores sound like danny elfman and i just love i love all of them i have yet to find a denny element score that i don’t like yeah it’s like a nice dark kind of gothic vibe and that’s why it suits tim burton so well his music but it also suits sam raimi because sam remy himself is a fairly dark i don’t want to say burton-esque because i don’t want to compare the two but he does bring a lot of like similar dark vibes to his films like in dark man and evil dead you know obviously that’s a horror film so i’m a big fan of those two directors for sure and understand why danny often works so well with them like danny elfman sam raimi definitely has his own signature style i think it all kind of comes from his horror background it’s almost comedic which i think lends itself very well to spider-man absolutely and sam raimi at the time people were like what you know because he was known for evil dead and evil dead was a very well-known franchise you had the first one that was a low budget student film and then evil dead 2 which is just a classic in the horror genre and then you have army of darkness which is just comedic action bruce campbell amazing and then he’s the one to take on spider-man but you know looking at it he knocked it out of the park and apparently the reason why he got the job over other directors is because he has a collection of like 25  pitch was on that like was sam raimi sitting down uh with sony and they’re like so we’re looking at a director what qualifies you because we see a lot of horror he’s like yeah yeah did i mention i have 25 000 comics they’re like sold he must know a lot about comics he has a bunch of them sounds like awesome yeah so apparently he was like a huge comic book greeter yeah i remember the story about how he had a big like print of i think it was john romita’s artwork up on his wall as a kid of spider-man so he always grew up a big fan of the character and doctor strange uh so i’m really interested in seeing his doctor strange movie that’s going to come out in a few years that’s right he’s directing that pretty [ __ ] awesome yeah now when i left the theater after seeing this for the first time i was happy as a clam and i was just absolutely thrilled with the movie even though i recognized that i had some problems i didn’t even care and when i watched the movie again yesterday for the first time in about five or so years i still recognize those problems and still did not even care um because when this movie came out and i still feel this way about it it was the purest comic to screen translation ever more faithful than the x-men certainly more faithful than blade and even batman and superman and with how popular this movie was it felt like we were on the precipice of like a big explosion of comic book movies to hit the screen and we definitely were because since this movie has come out we’ve just been inundated with amazing comic book movies definitely i would say there is no mcu without spider-man you know absolutely it was interesting i was looking at like the list of of marvel movies specifically and it like start off great spider-man spider-man 2 is like still considered one of the greatest comic book movies and then spider-man 3 that was just it oh my gosh it’s terrible so it ruined not just the spider-man franchise but it just started going downhill like daredevil you know there was like electrons and then the fantastic four movies you’re like what is going on yeah ghost writer ghost rider and then that’s why like john favreau with iron man had to make something different so i don’t know do we have the mcu without spider-man i would argue no i would definitely agree with that no we don’t have the mcu without spider-man for sure i think the first spider-man definitely set like a standard for superhero films going forward absolutely especially in terms of origin stories you know the x-men they didn’t really get in origin blade really wasn’t in origin but this was just so well done in terms of introducing people to a character that they already loved and maybe they weren’t as familiar with his backstory as as comic fans but i think it did a really good job of explaining how he became spider-man i you know i think that would later be trumped a few years later by batman begins but i think a majority of the comic book films that came out necessarily didn’t want to take the same approach as batman begins a lot of them i think kind of went the spider-man route in terms of their origin storytelling yeah they definitely used this movie as a template for a lot of original stories going forward i think part of the appeal of this film really lies in the purity of its presentation like sam raimi took a very archetypal approach to the characters and the story presents a very standard three-act monomyth structure but i think what really set spider-man apart and gave it such mainstream appeal beyond just us comic book nerds and how it really piqued the interest of kids and grandparents and girlfriends alike is that unlike most other superhero films peter parker’s journey his primary struggle motivation and trials they’re mostly centered around his love for mary jane at its core spider-man is a romantic story about a nerdy guy pining for a girl his struggle to earn her affection it’s really a timeless tale but with tights and spider webs and goblins tossed in like you’ve heard of romantic comedies right well i think that this film is a primary example of a romantic action genre film totally yeah and there’s a lot of themes that are going on in this movie and you can see sam raimi taking a approach where he wants the character to be relatable and that’s personally that’s one of the reasons why i love spider-man is because peter parker is so relatable and if you read the comics it’s not about spider-man it’s about peter parker you know i can’t relate to being an amazon you know obviously i can’t relate to be you know royalty like aquaman or black panther i can’t relate to being a billionaire like bruce wayne or tony stark i can relate to kind of outcast nerdy kid who wants to be seen has his power tries to help everybody but his personal life kind of you know gets complicated i can relate to that so i think in this movie sam raimi really is the pioneer of what makes a good superhero movie is you have to relate to that character and it’s not really a spider-man movie it is a peter parker movie and you know you see that with like tony stark the really good ones i think do that well it’s interesting because i think you know i know i’m biased but i think batman has yet to do that like do you really relate to bruce wayne i’m still waiting for like that quintessential bruce wayne story they kind of do that and rises with his downfall and his back being broken and things like that so there’s glimpses but i don’t think it’s yet to be perfected so maybe this next batman movie they can do that but i just think that sam raimi puts the foundation for what makes a comic book movie good we’ve talked about this on the podcast before where like marvel is has very relatable characters and dc has very like aspirational characters yes i think one of the reasons like we don’t really have a relatable batman movie yet is because bruce wayne is the act and batman is the real character so i’m kind of not surprised that we don’t have like a good relatable bruce wayne story but in terms of relatability i don’t think you get more relatable than spider-man i think that he’s the flagship character of marvel for a reason just because so many people love the character you’re right when you say that this is a peter parker film but even in regards to spider-man his relatability is much more than most characters you know you can’t see who’s behind the mask you can’t see if it’s a man or a woman or what race they are i think everyone can can put on the tights and costume of spider-man and feel like they are him you can’t do that with most comic book superheroes yeah i think that was a message that into the spider-verse really hammered home with introduction of miles morales and how at the end he was saying you could wear the suit he’s such a great character spider-man [ __ ] love him now coupled with the theme of teenage love is the very spider-man moral of responsibility as always with peter parker we learned that with great power comes great responsibility and i think that uncle ben’s lesson was used really well in this movie particularly not only because we get to see explicitly how his guilt drives him into action but also because it plays into the romantic drama itself how this newfound burden ultimately forces him to reject his primary motivation which is the love of his life mary jane it’s tragic stuff in the way that all the best spider-man stories are like his character has always been in part defined by how much he gets put through the emotional ringer alongside those that he cares about and it’s what makes spidey one of the most enduring popular superheroes of all time in addition to that relatability you see it’s it’s a romantic action i would still throw comedy in there it’s like a romantic comedy action but i think like if you were to classify this in terms of like classic genre labels you know whether it’s a tragedy or a comedy you know comedies were always stories that weren’t necessarily funny but had a good ending and tragedies were always stories that you know had a bad ending like like hamlet or something something where everyone dies you know i would almost classify this as a tragedy you mentioned that it was tragic and it is because in this film at least he doesn’t get the girl purposefully yeah and he sets it up that way peter parker is the narrator and he kind of says like hey um basically my life sucks and it’s complicated um but to go back to that great power comes great responsibility so i would argue that that’s the reason why spider-man 3 sucks so bad is because sam raimi really focuses on the first film as great power and it’s like okay norman osborne peter parker they both have powers right both of these powers are new it happened to them it was an accident so what did they do with these powers norman osborne loses his job loses his life in that instance and then peter parker loses uncle ben so what do they do in these losses what do they do in these traumatic events peter parker decides to do good with his power norman osborne decides to be irresponsible and just to wreak havoc so that’s the whole theme of the first one is about power what do you do with your power the second movie with doc ock and spider-man is about responsibility so here these two guys are geniuses what do they do with their responsibility so doc ock is irresponsible peter parker uh is responsible with his powers and then peter parker gets the girl at the end so that it’s done that story arc is done yeah but of course they need a third movie and then that’s where like venom comes in and salmon and it’s just it’s a mess because i think for like sam raimi he’s like i told the story but we got to make money so it’s you know if spider-man 1 and 2 was just that man it would have been the best franchise ever yeah thematically it definitely culminates in the second film i would agree and then yeah where do you go from there too bad he didn’t go uh great power great responsibility great friendship or something like it’s just you know it’s just like a two word thing he’s like damn it i should have had a third word in there or something yeah the story really did end at the end of spider-man 2 and i’ll say that the last five minutes of spider-man 2 are probably the best five minutes of any movie ever it was just so cathartic seeing him finally get the girl after the duration of these two films and after everything that he had been through i think that’s an amazing point i think that’s really well said let’s talk about the action in this movie now prior to this film we had never seen spider-man in live action in any sort of satisfying way like they had the made for tv movies that were back in the 70s but it was very cheesy they had the jeopardy sentai thing that’s right spiderman and most people don’t know that like he was actually the first like japanese character who would summon like this big megazord type robot thing right he was the first one to do that stan lee was actually one of the first people to try to get the power rangers into america like back in the 70s and  oh really i believe that yeah yeah that’s how cool that dude was he was just he gave us so much he gave us so much now the web swinging that was presented in this film i think should be commended because the way it was shot which was in part cg and in part actual camera work that they tied up on a line and had traversed like on a zipline through downtown manhattan it was just amazing it almost gave me vertigo the first time i saw it i don’t know if maybe if you’re younger listening to this podcast by the time you saw this movie it wasn’t that impressive but for those of us who were seeing this for the first time i know quite a few people who said that they got dizzy watching the web swinging and that was so cool to me because i feel like that’s what it would actually be like it would be pretty barfy but you know spider-man’s cool so he can get away with it and he has a strong stomach i guess but like how the 1970 superman movie made you believe a man could fly this movie absolutely made you believe a man could swing and we talked about a little bit about this in our last episode but yeah absolutely reading the comics like you just kind of see him you know like swinging along you never think about the physics of it but seeing it here for the first time how like the string was elastic and seeing him swing around for the first time still in his wrestling outfit it was just so fun to see i could watch it again and again and again when i was watching this i thought about like you know just peter parker and he has his web go and it attaches to that crane like what makes you go like hey i’m gonna go from here to there you know i’m like no like i would never think that i’m like okay that’s cool can i bring the crane like i would try to test my strength i wouldn’t try to say hey is this thing strong enough to carry my weight so i could you know fall to my death i would never think that so i don’t know peter parker must have had a couple screws loose because that dude i don’t know what he was thinking in that moment he must have been a big tarzan fan as a kid or something yeah something yeah or batman tried that that’s true that’s absolutely true we know he was a shazam fan at least that’s true go web go you know that whole scene to this day just cracks me up i remember seeing that for the first time and just laughing so hard because his different hand gestures and why is it like you know it’s like the love sign or the rock on sign you know upside down what is that i don’t know why it has to be that gesture whatever whatever sam remy i’ll go with it that’s kind of what makes the whole organic web shooters thing kind of crappy i guess i was really glad that in subsequent franchises they introduced the mechanical web shooters and you know organic web shooters the more you think about it the grosser it gets like where the [ __ ] is this webbing coming from is it like coming from like armpit sex or something like that it’s just like i just imagine like all this [ __ ] web just in his body and it [ __ ] grosses me out i always thought even from watching it for the first time like shouldn’t this be coming out of his ass that’s true huh could you imagine so like he’s upside down right he’s saving people but he’s like bear hugging them and he’s just like swinging from his butthole and like that would be so awesome and like oh there’s spiderman you know and then he’s like waving to the people as he has like you know five-year-old kid in his left arm and his right arm he’s waving it’s just your uh neighborhood spider-man you know that’s good and to cut the web line you know he would just pinch his cheeks oh my god that’s so good i love that i thought a lot about this [Laughter] i need to think more about this uh but since we’re talking about web swinging and his powers and stuff let’s get into our character breakdown and talk about peter parker spider-man who was played by toby mcguire what did you guys think about his costume uh hands down the best costume i think they nailed it it’s so classic and iconic and it’s not dated you know i look at like the christopher reeves superman costume it’s dated you know i wouldn’t say that the michael keaton batman suit is dated but you know he can’t move his freaking head left to right so but i think this costume is like you can’t really do better than that you know different variations of the colors like i’ve always loved the miles morales like black and red i just think it looks cooler but as far as like on screen this is a fantastic costume and especially like the eyes where it’s reflective and one of the most powerful scenes i think is towards the end where they have that close-up of spider-man and you see the cable car on one side of his eye reflective glass and then mary jane and it’s like that those are the scenes where it’s like man this is a excellent movie with just little shots like that where you just feel the emotion in just a quick second yeah that was a great shot they did a lot of great things with the lenses like especially even in the posters for all of the spider-man films in this franchise specifically the simmering me one but no they really nailed the costume like right off the bat it was definitely the first like most faithful most timeless costume uh you know it definitely like like everything else also set a standard for costuming and i think in a way two subsequent films detriments because when they try to reinvent you know spider-man’s costume and the amazing spider-man that thing looked like ass you know the amazing spider-man costume and then they had to do like other like slight tweaks when he was first introduced in the mcu you know for better or worse i i do really like the lenses of the mcu spider-man and how they’re able to like shrink and grow but there is something to be said like you mentioned for the reflections that you see you could do so much with it yeah i think one of the primary reasons that this costume worked so well as opposed to previous superior costumes like christopher reeve superman was that they added a lot of texture to the suit by raising the webbing by having that hexagonal pattern within the stretchy fabric it made it seem more like sports oriented i guess like active wear as opposed to just putting on tights yeah yeah and to be real the spider-man costume in itself is kind of lame it’s just a spandex right like you know it’s a onesie and you can buy those on amazon for like 40 bucks and when people put it on it doesn’t look cool you’re like all right you know so but they made this look cool and i was thinking like you know peter parker should have been a photographer he should have been in like fashion design like i’m like he drew a perfect spider-man outfit he put that together we don’t see how he did it like where did he get the material he could have been rich he could have been hanging out with hot models and making all this fashion you know he could have been like calvin klein and stuff so peter parker what are you doing dude he could have been a model exactly like spider-man 3 walking down the street you know with this emo hair he’s got the cat walk down i think uh toby maguire definitely filled out the suit better than prior superheroes as well maybe not like wesley snipes but definitely like michael keaton or or christopher using christopher reeves you know he was physically imposing but in terms of just being like physically like cut right i think toby takes the cake there yeah dude was shredded to hell yeah granted he’s only like 115 pounds but you know it’s all good that’s true now in terms of toby’s performance i kind of have a love-hate relationship with my feelings on it on one hand i don’t think his boyish voice and severe case of what i call toby mcguire face suits spider-man like that’s not really the voice you want to hear coming out from that mask because it’s so unconfident and kind of mopey i loved it i thought it was like the perfect spider-man voice it’s it’s close to what i’ve always heard you know from the comics i think christopher daniel barnes is like the best spider-man voice yeah the voice of the animated series uh but yeah toby mcguire i don’t know like it’s a very specific type of peter parker i wouldn’t say this is the peter parker from the comics really because what this movie is missing is just that confidence when peter parker puts on the suit then he gets cocky he starts you know making fun of the villains and right you know he becomes not a bully but he becomes this like different person almost like the inner ego comes out where peter parker has a fragile ego he’s really timid so that has been always one of my critiques and actually what i love about the amazing spider-man andrew garfield is those banters and stuff like that but i’m with you i i don’t think that boyish voice is peter parker yeah it’s just i wasn’t used to it but um toby maguire’s strange eye and mouth movements and his weird secret sex lips often distract me from his acting what the [ __ ] do you remember that from deadpool 2 when uh deadpool was talking to the orderly guy he was like your weird secret sex lips i think toby mcguire has those i don’t know okay maybe he just has a thing for do you ever think for toby mcguire joe well i i didn’t think i did but now i’m starting all that being said i do think that toby maguire gives a subtly heartfelt performance and you know despite his tobey maguire face he is endearing as a hero you want to see him succeed because in a way he represents the unconfident boy in all of us that eventually grew into men and one of the best praises i can give this movie is that it has wonderful character development from the film’s opening lines of the story of my life is not for the faint of heart and the end lines of this is my gift my curse and by that point i was like holy ass that is peter parker his performance made me believe in the character’s growth i think one of the reasons i really liked toby mcguire’s performance was because it was so awkward and someone who like especially at 16 super [ __ ] awkward like he sold the comedy of the film in a way that i don’t think a lot of actors could like just his mannerisms and his deliveries alone were funny like maybe unintentionally but like also in a charming way let’s move on to norman osborne slash green goblin who is played by willem dafoe now willem is one of the greatest actors of his generation i definitely buy him as norman osborne he has all the traits the shrewdness the intelligence and he also has a severe case of willem dafoe face where it makes him look like a goblin yep but i do have to say that he does ham it up a bit in this movie yeah it looks like he had a lot of fun with the role and just went kind of crazy with it yeah yeah willem dafoe is a fantastic actor and he gives hundred percent in every role and what’s great is he’s really strategic you know he’s not in a whole lot of blockbuster movies which he could but you know it’s the reason why you can see him in a movie like boondock saints right and he makes every movie better and this portrayal of norman osborne is one of the most underrated villains right the performance of the green goblin yeah it’s campy yeah it’s kind of over the top but i think it works because green goblin is kind of like that is almost that joker-esque character you know in the comics so yeah i think it’s phenomenal actually for the first time watching this kind of felt that green goblin was one of the weaker aspects of the film in a way that i hadn’t really noticed in prior viewings and i think part of it has to do with his motivations we talked a few episodes ago during our wonder woman 1984 review how cheetah was a weak villain because she wasn’t evil of her own fault you know it was kind of like a consequence of her wish all of a sudden they took away her humanity right and in this case i kind of got similar vibes he became insane because of the sierra now of course he was irresponsible in performing the gas serum on himself those performance enhancers but uh i’m left wondering like why he’s doing what he’s doing is it just because of the serum is it because you know of like prior trauma in his life why is he such a dick to begin with you know things like that i also had an issue with the motivations of the character in this movie it’s hard to know what his end goals are because they don’t really state that explicitly we just know that he wants power and he doesn’t really have any motivations outside of his own selfish ambition you know when he finds out that spider-man’s around he goes after him when he finds out that peter parker is spider-man he goes after him when he finds out that mary jane’s in love with peter he goes after mary jane you know it’s it’s all kind of on an ad hoc basis and without that sort of arc for the green goblin character it kind of leaves the reasoning behind his actions as kind of weak that being said it is a testament to willem dafoe’s acting that you rarely recognize that fault with the character yeah i definitely thought dr octopus’s you know goal of remaking his machine and everything like that to get that right was a much better arc and gold as opposed to oh i’m just gonna you know pick on spider-man for some reason yeah you know it’s not explicitly really stated just another powerful guy that he wants on his side it is uh you guys are right it is weak but i would say that the motivation although it’s not clear it’s that he got fired right like oscorp he created this entire empire and then like the board wants him off and so he’s just basically like screw you he’s gonna go for revenge and then spider-man stops him and then he’s like oh i should get spider-man on my side and then i’ll be unstoppable with this guy and then it gets convoluted because he sees that spider-man’s gonna stop him finds out he’s peter parker and then he’s like well i gotta eliminate the threat so it is convoluted and you have to like really think about it which doesn’t make it a great motivation in general because where would the green goblin story go if spider-man weren’t around he would have killed the guys at the world unity festival but where would he have gone from there do you think what was his end goal the sinister six yeah that’s right that’s where it went yeah what did you guys think about his costume the green goblin costume you know i didn’t hate it i know a lot of people rag on it because you know it wasn’t like the purple rags and stuff like that but i think it made a little bit more sense in this world maybe the helmet was a little bit over the top like who the [ __ ] designed that and who took the time to do that but uh i think it worked as an on-screen costume for a villain yeah you know what’s funny is he didn’t call himself the green goblin so what was going on in norman osborn’s mind like he’s like yeah i’m gonna look like a monster like this like goblin looking thing you know because it would be different he was like no i’m taking on this identity i’m taking on this persona i am the green goblin but no it’s just some dude you know walking around looking like a clown basically no but i think it’s cool i hate the mouth i hate that you can see him talk it’s so distracting in certain scenes where you can see willem dafoe talking um but i think because in the comics correct me if i’m wrong it’s just like a latex costume type thing and that wouldn’t work we don’t need a scooby-doo kind of costume and you know green goblin you know that would be stupid so i think to make it for that time and to make it a little more realistic i think it still stands yeah it’s kind of dated and again the mouth thing is really bad but it could have been a lot worse yeah they definitely couldn’t go the latex route i think they rationalized the helmet within the context of this movie as kind of almost being like uh like a motorcycle helmet he wears it for protection when he’s riding on the glider and so they kind of designed it and modeled after that including his suit which kind of looks like a biker suit yeah they also established that he has like a collection of masks william defoe norman osborne character in his mansion right so maybe he kind of ran with that kind of vibe wearing a mask to sort of strike fear into your enemies yeah i’m not sure how you would improve the mask like would you give it a moving mouthpiece would that work i’m not entirely sure i don’t think so when willem dafoe would act while he was speaking he would act like like how the power rangers characters act like when they speak they like bob their head like this and that’s like a horrible way to convey that you’re speaking behind a mask just speak you know we know that it’s coming from you because it’s your voice you don’t have to shake your head like you’re a [ __ ] power ranger that’s so good i’m uh i’m really curious to see how they approach the costume in the mcu because the mcu costumes have been so faithful i wonder what they’ll do for the green goblin there well judging off of vultures outfit and mysterio’s outfit whatever they decide to do for green goblin they’re gonna [ __ ] nail it i just know it yeah and it’s gonna be some kind of stark industry thing because everything is dark industry exactly i do hope that like oscorp becomes like the new stark industries in the mcu i think that’ll be i think it just makes sense that would be cool let’s move on to mary jane watson who was played by kirsten dunst now i think kirsten gets kind of looked down on nowadays because she kind of earned some fanboy ire after making a few negative comments about other spider-man productions and even her own films and her performance in spider-man 3 seemed a bit tired and phoned in and some people say she has severe kirsten dunst face in this film i actually found her really quite sweet and fun traits that i would absolutely attribute to mj from the comics yeah i think it’s it’s fine to me when i think of this movie i don’t think of mary jane or her performance as like a character more of like the idea like she’s the girl and i think that’s where i think could have been better i really wish that gwen stacy honestly was the character not mj because there’s there’s something about gwen stacy where that is peter parker’s first love and she died and that really shapes who peter parker is so i get it i think they’re trying to take a little bit from the animated series because mj was you know the girl then but yeah kirsten does i mean it’s okay you know i was thinking about this i’m like dude i haven’t seen her really in a movie in a long time like a prominent movie that’s like where did she go yeah she’s just kind of living off of the spider-man residuels you know yeah good for her yeah for sure she would have been my first choice for mary jane but i i do think she has good chemistry with toby mcguire weren’t they dating at the time that this movie was made they were dating right after this movie well that explains that but uh i don’t think her performance was bad i don’t think it was that great either honestly there are a few scenes where i’m like i think like your timing is a little bit off and i could you know definitely tell that you’re acting um it’s definitely a performance but uh you know i i do agree that gwen stacy would have been a better choice there’s so much iconic imagery i think in this film of like you know the girl falling that’s like that’s gwen stacy you know that’s how she dies that kind of makes it more difficult to establish such a powerful story as gwen stacy’s i think later on in the films and that’s why gwen stacy was done so horribly in the third movie absolutely yeah to the amazing spider-man franchise’s credit they did try to do that right where they established gwen stacy as his first love prior to hooking up with mj and kirsten dunst’s performance was a little bit on the melodramatic side for sure but am i the only one that had kind of a crush on her when i was a teenager yes yes not me not me i mean they did have like the whole like wet t-shirt thing which kind of did something but i don’t know if i would say it’s crush can we talk about that scene real quick sure like can we talk because that’s one of the most iconic like scenes but i was thinking about it like okay mj takes off the mask first of all why doesn’t she just take the whole thing off it doesn’t make any sense just like i’ll just take off like the mouthpiece right that’s stupid and then also like if you’re spider-man it’s raining he’s upside down water’s gonna be going in your nose she’s kissing him he’s not gonna be able to breathe so he’s probably gonna like vomit in her mouth or something you know like it’s it’s like supposed to be a romantic uh scene but i’m like in reality dude this is a mess you know and i feel like at this point he’s trying to figure out like do i tell her do i not and she’s trying to take off his mask i feel like he was just like hey don’t don’t touch my mask you know so uh in reality that scene uh is not romantic it’s a lot of problems but yeah i was just picturing you know water going down his nose and you know he’s trying to like gasp for air and he ends up barfing well it’s funny that you say that because i remember reading wizard magazine around the time that this movie came out and they had an interview with toby mcguire and he said that exactly he was like yeah it may have looked good but while we were filming it i was struggling because all the blood was rushing to my head and there was water getting in my mask and in my nose and in my eyes and everything and it was just horrible to film so yeah you’re scared on with that as a  romantic scene i had ever seen i hadn’t kissed a girl yet and i just dreamed of kissing a girl that way i have since then it’s not great at all you’ve kissed a girl upside down i just realized i don’t want to hear anything about it yeah what do you get into closed doors oh again let’s move on to harry osborne who’s played by james franco this was the first time i had seen franco in any role because i never watched freaks and geeks at the time i think he’s a great actor he definitely has the james franco face going but in this case that’s a good thing because he’s a good looking dude but despite the fact that he’s much more attractive than willem dafoe he’s still believable as his son i thought it was great casting oh yeah yeah i wish he had more to work with you know he’s a great actor but like the lines and it’s not even the delivery it’s just kind of the lines and the story arc it’s just like you know he yells at his girlfriend he’s like i just want to be half the man that my father is it’s like that’s give him a little more get a little more than that yeah i definitely think that he made the most of what he had to work with from the script you know even like the little moments when osborne congratulates peter parker about how like you want to make it on your own he respects that you know and they cut to harry and just the look on his face i think it’s little moments like that that really make the character someone that you care about and you know other than the fact that he’s a really good friend of this character that no one else seems to want to be friends with yeah i think his arc was lacking but what he had did come from a very understandable place where he was under constant criticism from his father and he never felt good enough you sympathize with him but you also see how his path is eventually going to turn him into his father so it’s a little bit tragic in that regard he’s also kind of an ass though like obviously peter parker had no sort of ownership over mary jane but the fact that he went after his bros crush is just it’s just not part of the bro code right no it’s not something you do as a bro number one of the bro code you don’t do it right especially if you’re living with them right and you didn’t mention anything totally like what a dick what a dick i was just gonna say that what a dick i was glad that they gave him more to do in spider-man 3 where he eventually became the green goblin like how that character did in the comics but it was done in a very dissatisfying way ultimately yeah like the hoverboard yeah the [ __ ] well i liked the hoverboard i just didn’t like i like the goblin glider way more yeah okay that’s true i definitely like the goblin glider more than the hoverboard where do you land on the hoverboard goblin glider debate max probably glider yeah this is cooler yeah and then it’s a mess and the amazing spider-man oh god he looks like uh i don’t know like have you guys seen that horror movie trolls2 he looks like one of those things i’ve seen clips for him yeah yeah he totally looks like one of those trolls when i saw that i was like all right uh no this movie sucks yeah the green goblin in the amazing spider-man 2 that was a bad way to approach it he looked like he had just a really severe venereal disease it was disgusting it was really gross you should see a doctor about that seriously you should go get some antibiotics never stop taking them um let’s move into the final characters uh in our character breakdown aunt me uh who was played by rosemary harris watching this movie again made me realize how much i do prefer an old fragile aunt may because she’s she’s such a treasure you know part of spider-man’s appeal involves how careful he has to be with a secret identity because of how much he cherishes his loving but very vulnerable ant yeah i definitely love like old anime as opposed to like younger hot ant-may like marissa tomei yeah i think that’s something the new spider-man movies haven’t really gotten because like in the homecoming movies all of his friends seem to have plot armor but spider-man as a hero is a part defined by the losses he experiences yeah i was thinking about it it’s like uncle ben said he was like 68 so that makes aunt may in her 60s if it’s like their aunt then how old is peter parker’s parents and stuff so it kind of like you know homecoming the mcu wanted to update that but i’m in agreement the older ant made that’s just what i’ve grown up with and that’s what i’m used to and especially like in the animated series she looks like a walking corpse almost yeah she does sunken in cheeks yeah you know it’s a it’s a small role in this movie it develops more as the series goes on but i think it’s good yeah yeah i always kind of saw aunt may as his great aunt and in a way i thought that kind of made the relationship a little bit more special because it is a little bit farther removed and yet she still cares for him as much as you know a mother would well she’s his aunt in law in the comics it was ben that was related to peter parker’s family well that’s even more special then yeah yeah i would like to see in the third spider-man film in the homecoming franchise i would like to see marissa tomes and me actually get put into dire peril for once and then see spider-man like react strongly to that and go and save her uh last character we want to talk about is jay jonah jameson who is played by jk simmons to absolute perfection jk simmons is a great character actor i’m so glad that they brought him back for the homecoming franchise because his performance was just hilarious and it never gets old watching it how much of it was ad-libbed i i have to know that because it just seems so natural especially like his banter with uh sam remy’s brother i forget the character ted raymie yeah and he was like how about green meanie and jackie someone’s just like you know just stuff like that is just hilarious yeah i honestly this is one of the best from page to screens i mean there’s a reason why he got brought back it’s phenomenal have you guys seen whiplash oh yeah it’s so good he’s such a great actor anything that he’s in you’re like i love this guy he’s a phenomenal actor i would love to have seen more of him as a commissioner gordon i thought he would have really done a lot with that role in like a standalone batman film and he’s the voice of the yellow peanut eminem oh i didn’t know that yeah to go from that to winning an oscar that’s that’s awesome yeah great career all right that does it for all the characters so let’s go ahead and get into our story highlights the movie starts off during a field trip to columbia university and i thought this was a nice scene because it served to really establish the characters and their relationships with each other but also served as a means to deliver a lot of exposition regarding spider-man’s abilities that he gets when he gets bitten by the genetically engineered spider that first scene it kind of felt clunky yep i don’t know it just it felt like what am i watching almost i wasn’t gravitated toward what was going on yeah and look at this spider he can lift eight times his strength and this spider has the ability to jump it’s like okay well it maybe felt clunky because it was doing multiple things at the same time explaining spider-man’s powers and explaining their relationships with each other the main characters it always kind of annoyed me how there were like 13 super spiders like are you telling me that none of the other researchers ever got bit by any of these other spiders and got spider powers right it was always kind of bizarre yeah i always thought like right after he got bit like peter parker should have just like stepped on that spider and just like killed it so like no one else could get bit by it that’s what they did in the ultimate spider-man comics oh really yeah from that scene after peter parker gets bit we visit ozcorp and we learn about how norman is about to lose his defense contract to another company called quest aerospace but his company is working on a military contract regarding a glider and performance enhancers like a super soldier serum kind of i was always kind of surprised how unimpressed that general was with like the glider and like the suit and everything right really i think that’s worth the defense contract maybe the general is like did you see what tony stark was offering me this ain’t nothing yeah you know that if this movie took place in the mcu they would definitely make both a reference to stark industries and the captain america super soldier serum absolutely from us corp we revisit peter parker who gets sick and he undergoes his change and he wakes up buff as hell and norman osborne also undergoes a transformation by experimenting on himself back at oscorp peter starts discovering his powers while at school and away from school he learns that he can climb up walls and he has spidey sense which he learns in a fight with flash thompson and that he can swing from webs i thought all of this was handled really well and it’s some of my most favorite like discovering your power scenes in all of superhero movie history yeah the cafeteria scene i i just love that like every moment from catching all the food on the tray when i was up in the air to like discovering that he had like webbing coming from his body just like pulling the fork off it was all really well done yeah the one thing that always bugs me about the high school stuff is just how old all the actors are like there are 30 32 i mean like deathstroke is a grown man he’s like 40 in this movie right so it’s just it’s never believable even when i watched the first time i was like this is not believable which i appreciate about you know having tom holland and zendaya because they’re they’re younger they actually look like high school students so yeah i don’t know it’s just like the whole high school part it’s okay i love the slow-mo in this movie it could have been really cheesy especially coming off the heels of matrix in 99 like it could have been clich it was cliche by then but it was a fresh take of the slo-mo and it still to this day looks phenomenal yeah i kind of took what like the matrix did and uh did it in a new good way that didn’t seem like it was ripping it off or anything like that and it made sense story wise so after he discovers his powers he goes home that night and he has a talk with mj at the end of which he realizes flash thompson got a new car and you know he wants to impress mj so he looks at the classifieds looking for a car and learns that there’s this wrestling competition that will offer him three thousand dollars if he lasts for three minutes and it’s not just three minutes in a ring it’s three minutes of play time [Laughter] oh saw i was like immediately when i saw randy savage on there i was like i want a slim jim snap into a slim jim rip man savage so yeah so on peter’s way to the ring he gets the with great power comes great responsibility lesson from uncle ben and he goes in the match what i love about this movie is one bruce campbell’s in it as the announcer oh yes and then uh the second thing is this movie insinuates that wrestling is real and i’m all for that you know like it makes it look like they’re actually in a fight and i’m like cool because at 12 years old i was totally watching wrestling you know this is like the kind of peak of the attitude error or as as it starts to transition i’m like hey wrestling’s definitely real i thought it was so messed up how bone saw kept getting help from his side ring girls and like they gave him a [ __ ] crowbar i’m like how the hell is this not murder like how does this wrestling organization get away with it because it looks real he’s actually beating him with that chair now he’s about to beat the [ __ ] out of him with a crowbar that’s pretty hardcore because wrestling yeah when he took out the uh flying dutchman like that stunt was no joke that guy looked like he broke his his neck and then like later on he’s like oh my legs oh god i can’t feel my luck i still crack up so hilarious i love how bruce campbell was the one that gave spider-man his name from the human spider to spider-man i thought that that was the amazing spider-man too amazing spider-man it’s so good during the the wrestling scene i was surprised to see octavius spencer yeah oh that’s right yes she was the registration table yeah i was like wow it must have been really early in her career because she is a phenomenal actress that and elizabeth banks you know you look at it you’re like there’s a lot of recognizable people in this right yeah a lot of up-and-comers for sure the way that they presented the whole robbery scene i thought was a little bit unfair because i feel like if i were in peter parker’s situation i absolutely would have done the same thing and it would have been justified the guy’s running at you with the good exactly stop him i’m like no i will step to the side did they want his ass to get shot or something what the hell were they expecting that wasn’t gonna happen it’s because he just defeated their hero bone saw they’re like bone saws defeated if anyone could defeat bonesaw you could defeat a guy with a gun running at you if you could defeat bonesaw you must be bulletproof [Laughter] it’s ridiculous but uh you know nevertheless he lets the guy go by and we see that uncle ben has been shot by the same robber i did really like this chase scene that followed where peter parker suits up in his wrestling costume and goes and pursues his uncle’s murderer i thought the death scene of uncle ben was pretty powerful i haven’t seen the amazing spider-man version of that but i would find it hard to believe that it was better than this it’s not because it’s not and yeah not surprised cliff robertson just does an amazing job as uncle ben what i was thinking about when i was watching this scene was dude peter parker just abandons his uncle’s dead body in the nasty streets of new york like there’s rats everywhere i was like come on dude like at least you know be there for the corners to come so he’s like forget that he’s dead i want revenge that’s kind of kind of trashy kind of trashy peter it was pretty callous for sure revenge so after he uh apprehends the robber and the robber dies by falling out of a window peter parker is wrecked by tremendous guilt primarily because of the last thing that he said to uncle ben was just hurtful you’re not my real dad [Laughter] green goblin dons the goblin armor for the first time and kills everybody at quest aerospace in an effort to get the defense contract back from there we see peter parker graduate from midtown high afterward there’s a touching scene between peter parker and aunt may where they just have a moment of missing uncle ben i thought rosemary harris’s performance here was really moving it’s surprising that she know she lost the love of her life and yet she’s the one that’s comforting him she’s just such a strong woman from there we get the spider-man montage which i thought was really well done this is where the whole world trade center scene would have happened from that world trade center teaser trailer where the helicopter gets caught in between the two towers but they kind of nixed that and showed other cool spider-man saving the day moments right they had to this is like right after 9 11. right we were not ready for that you know as fresh as that was yeah we weren’t ready to see anything like that it was uh it was kind of nice how they uh incorporated just like seemingly random new yorkers i think in some scenes it seems like they actually did go to like new york and just say hey say something about spider-man um i could be wrong they could be all actors but it seemed uh authentic which was really nice during that time well we did see lucy lawless we know that she’s an actress that’s sure it was really interesting to see her in like punk rock mode right and the relationship there is uh sam raimi was a producer on xena so there’s the titan right there that’s right that’s right yeah from the montage we get our first glimpse at the daily bugle and jk simmons wonderful performance as jay jonah jameson it’s really hilarious and he puts out a call for photos of spider-man since spider-man is selling a lot of newspapers but his interaction with his whole staff like with elizabeth banks and he’s telling her to put down the phone and like he hangs up on his wife and stuff it’s just it’s perfect dude it’s perfect from there after the boardroom meeting where we learned that norman osborne is being basically bought out of his uh role as the head of oscorp we go to the world unity festival where peter parker is taking photos and norman osborne seeks out his revenge on the board i can see why norman osborne would have been pissed because that was really messed up of his board to do that holy crap yeah it’s his name right my freaking name is on this company and you’re going to make this decision without me it’s great i think a character like norman osborne that’s all about power he is at the top right and he got to this huge corporation and for that to be taken from underneath him like that is all the power that his whole life probably has built up to that moment and he doesn’t even get in saying it like i think it’s more disrespectful but like oh no no no no i’m taking control of the situation you don’t get to make that decision for me yeah yeah that’s absolutely valid yeah i did like the green goblin’s entrance to the world unity festival i thought it was pretty eerie the way the music played in as he almost looks like the wicked witch of the west on the flying broom coming in good call yeah it’s really interesting and i like the way his pumpkin bombs worked he really felt like a credible threat i really liked all the gadgets that he had and like the guns that he had on the goblin glider as he was fighting spider-man and stuff i do remember the first time i saw this like i think the audience was a little bit more uh apprehensive or concerned about this scene at least i know i was just you know hearing this like airplane kind of sound coming in through new york it definitely like added some tension to the scene seeing it at that time than it does you know nowadays yeah i completely forgot about that that’s true i always loved the scene where spider-man is jumping off the balloons or the floats or whatever i just thought it was so cool like just to see like something like that where he’s just so agile it looked really cool yeah great visuals in this scene yeah great set piece for sure the scene ends with him pulling out the wires from the goblin glider and goblin melodramatically yelling we’ll meet again spider-man and then he saves mary jane which i thought was a really nice scene while spider-man is handing his photos to j-jonah jameson of the event the green goblin crashes the scene demanding to know who the photographer is that takes the photos of spider-man from there he kidnaps spidey and offers him an ultimatum either they join together or he kills him that was one thing i really didn’t get it’s like joined together to do what exactly he mentioned like killing millions of people and it’s like why why would he want to do that well at the time spider-man’s a menace so the people have turned on him and they could have gone into that more and saying look you’re trying to save the people who hate you you’re a villain they did slightly touch on it at the very end when he says you know i promise you they will turn on you that kind of thing but yeah they didn’t really elaborate on it yeah he basically says it’s not worth it being a hero come join me and we’ll hang out we’ll play video games or something you know after that scene goblin leaves him and peter parker goes and visits mary jane after a failed audition it starts raining and some guys try to attack her he fends them off and they make out heavily and you see some pokies and spiderman gets some water up his nose i do have to say that action scene is pretty cool when he takes those guys out when he’s just like pulling them and standing on top of that like light post that was so cool yeah i think what made this such an appealing action scene is that you could tell that it was all practical there was little to no computer effects done within that scene it was choreographed right right which i missed because now spider-man most of those scenes are computerized and cg and stuff like that and practical will always be superior to cgi in my opinion when it comes to fight scenes for sure absolutely after that scene we have the burning building fight where spider-man goes into a burning building to save an old woman but it turns out that the old woman is green goblin which i thought was kind of a neat little trick and it’s such a great scene because goblin throws the razor bats at them and the movies design of the razorbacks is so cool i just i really love the slow-motion dodging of those two dude that scene where the woman turns and scream goblin scared the crap out of me i’m like 12 right i was not expecting i was like oh you know and that’s where sam raimi he throws in a little horror you know yeah even in the beginning of the movie where norman osborne is changing there’s like flashes of those skeletons it’s like very evil dead-esque and even in the beginning where norman has the gas and his eyes go completely white he looks just like a dead eye from evil dead that’s true you see this and then he turns around and just the setting i was totally scared at like 12. i was like holy crap i was not expecting that that woman is ugly you know there were a lot of complaints at the time that this movie came out from parents with young children who found the green goblin too scary and uh i thought that was hilarious because i just thought that made the green goblin all the more badass so after the burning building fight where spider-man rejects green goblin’s offer we have the thanksgiving scene where norman osborne realizes that peter parker is spider-man it’s super forced yeah absolutely you have a cut you must be spider-man like what why couldn’t it or just been a bike messenger right exactly i it just it was a huge jump and i was just like yeah i’m not believing that so knowing that peter parker is now spider-man green goblin goes and attacks aunt may in one of the most ridiculous scenes ever when she’s saying her nightly prayers and he busts in as she’s about to say from evil and he’s like finish it and she’s like from evil it was so bad he was just waiting for that specific moment he was like oh okay i’m gonna do it right before she says this is gonna be so badass what part of the prayer is she on right now i have to remember them they are finally okay okay okay here we go here we go boom you know he goes finish it and then scorpion comes out and spears me in the head fake and then comic book scorpion would have been like what the [ __ ] yeah who’s this guy amazing after that we get a few moments in the hospital um where peter and mj have a sweet tender moment where he kind of confesses his feelings for her in a roundabout way kind of a passive way but the message kind of gets through it was sweet it was charming harry walks in and sees that the two are falling for each other i felt like that scene is so awkward the way that cuts it’s just like james franco just comes in and he just goes oh like there’s no words or anything like i was like what happened after right right that’s true it just ends i’m like okay but what you know like what what happened what was the dialogue did you know harry go to aunt may did he leave like i want to know more you know like there were some raised voices after that like right after that there had to have been i don’t know neither of them seem like too prone to confrontation at all so i wouldn’t be surprised if like he just walked right back out or something he’s like oh sorry i need to validate my parking i’ll be right back he tells his dad that mj dumped him and is falling in love with peter so green goblin kidnaps mj and takes her to the bridge that leads to roosevelt island and spider-man has to save her as well as a group of kids who are i guess on a field trip or something to roosevelt island i don’t know why the hell you would take a field trip to roosevelt island in the middle of the night yeah but uh that happened [Laughter] logic and i thought it was pretty cool how he managed to save both of them i thought it was a great tension-filled scene primarily due to the tension in the web line that is used to support both the gondola and mary jane i see what you did there yeah it’s so good and just the slow-mo and you know if you’re a avid spider-man comic reader you could see the tension like this is the huge tension peter parker do i save my family or do i save the civilians the the people that need me so like that little scene is kind of the overall theme of peter parker’s struggle of family and doing what’s right yeah totally he has like a huge weight on his shoulders right for protecting everyone and in terms of tension like when i first saw this i was absolutely on the edge of my seat not knowing if like mary jane was gonna end up like gwen stacy how he was gonna possibly save both and i agree the way they ended up doing it was was really well done what i really didn’t kind of like about this scene though was how it kind of culminated with spider-man being saved by the new yorkers now i like the sentiment i like the idea of it but in execution it was kind of cheesy as hell in my opinion what did you guys think i wonder if that was written after 9 11 because at that time like the entire nation was behind new york yeah the new yorkers and stuff and i think that was kind of the image of like hey this tragedy happened in our city but we will fight back you know we will be stronger we will stand together so even watching it this time i was like oh i wonder if that was just a nod to the city of new york and the resiliency of the city do you think that throwing garbage at the green goblin would have actually stopped him in the way that it did absolutely not they should have been throwing like baseball bats and stuff i mean wasn’t one guy holding one i think he was yeah they’re lucky he didn’t throw a pumpkin bomb at him because he had a lot better weapons than they did that’s true but the idea was nice i really do like though how he was able to wrap the cable around spider-man and tug him which was an homage to that scene when it happened in the comics and he flew around the city with spider-man masculus and they go into the abandoned factory fight which i thought was pretty damn hardcore i liked this fight spider-man gets his [ __ ] dick kicked in yeah i really love how green goblin just brought it i thought it really served to highlight him as an absolute threat to peter parker i had no idea how the hell he was going to get out of it because anything that spider-man tried to do to try to defend himself or fight back green goblin was just stopping dead in his tracks it was kind of silly it seemed very power rangers in this moment when he’s like doing like spin twist kicks and stuff like that i don’t know just the wire work i was like i don’t know yeah i love the very end of that scene where the glider like is all of a sudden really quiet and like very stealthy yeah and then it just goes and of course spider-man has his spider senses so he flips and then willem dafoe just goes oh like it’s super you know like corny i i i could have done without it but he just goes oh and then he dies yeah it’s very sam raimi totally now in the comic screen goblin you know gets hit in the chest but for this movie the first time i noticed this he gets like stabbed like right in the crotch yeah he gets cut in the dick that kick he gets slashed right in the genital area it was pretty hardcore now like in the comics his goblin glider had like that center column that the wing sprouted from and it was that ramming into his chest it kind of caved in his chest and impaled him in this they gave the glider blades which i thought was really badass what do you guys think about those last words that green goblin says please don’t tell harry does that kind of make him redeemable like he’s the father looking out for his son or is he more looking out for his own reputation in his own legacy i think it was both i don’t think he was a good father so i think it was sort of selfish on his part for not wanting to tell harry because he wanted his legacy to be kept intact and stuff like that but i do think some small part of him did care for harry i think harry felt that for the first time in the scene between the two prior you know when he like finally hugs his son and finally admits like hey i haven’t been the best father and you know gives him a hug i think harry’s waited his whole life for that so it’s sort of a little bit more tragic when his father is dead the next time he sees him yeah as much as i would like to think that norman osborne turned a new leaf at that point everything that he has done within the movie has been for his own selfish ambition so i think that he was ultimately thinking about his own legacy and perhaps even potentially thinking that by not telling harry harry will avenge him and we see perhaps a hint of that when spider-man is returning his body to norman osborne’s house and uh norman osborne has a big smile on his face as he’s being laid down i didn’t even notice that that’s creepy yeah me neither yeah and you can also see that in alex ross’s artwork that was shown in the opening credits for spider-man 2. why was he smiling he was dead i don’t know was he dead we know that the goblin serum does give him a healing factor in the comics i don’t know if that’s the case for this movie but uh it’s something really sinister that i thought was like a nice touch wow that unsettles me i’m like i need to go back and watch that scene again it’s there but again going back to whether or not norman osborne cared for his son we do know throughout the film they established that norman osborne and the green goblin were like two different personas had like a split personality right so that’s why i say it could be both i don’t think that norman osborne was completely in control of his actions i do think that he was possessed by by something more sinister so after that scene uh we are on the final scene at the funeral where harry osborne tells peter parker that he swears on his life that spider-man will pay for killing his father it has a lot of dramatic irony in that moment and the movie just pretty much just ends right as far as the story goes it ends and of course there’s that iconic like spider-man going through the city of new york the giant american flag in the background yeah that scene definitely made the film and on a high note because if you just ended it with harry osborn saying he’s going to make spider-man pay and peter parker rejecting mary jane’s love if the movie just ended there i would not have felt satisfied but there’s something so majestic about seeing spider-man swing through manhattan even though that last part is only about like 30 seconds long it uplifts your spirits it’s just amazing to watch and then yeah of course like you said with the american flag it just felt very inspiring in a in a moment where everything just felt kind of down yeah it’s so iconic too and i think you guys just mentioned that right like that scene was one of the most iconic moments in marvel cinematic history yeah for that decade yeah i gave it the best moment award yeah i still love to watch every time i watch this movie i rewind it at least two or three times to re-watch that swinging scene just because i love it so much it’s just one of the most perfect spider-man films out there i feel like and i think it’ll always have a nostalgic factor for being so good i think that this movie is not just a crown jewel of early superhero films but of my life personally i will always remember my first experience seeing this film i will always really enjoy it not only because it’s a good movie but because it meant a lot to me when it came out and i always appreciate it for that if i can rip off ready to retro for a quick moment max if we could steal your rating system for this particular movie since you are a guest on this episode unfortunately we don’t have chris to explain how this works but i will do my best here on uh dynamic duel podcast the way we rate movies instead of saying that i give the movie four stars out of five or anything like that instead we pick something from the movie uh like if we were watching oh god how does he do this he just makes a random movie like if we were watching lord of the rings right now uh i would say that i give this film for you shall not passes out of five i love every moment of this right now this is fantastic so so in regards to this movie um i have to say that i give this film four i’m spider-man’s out of five and jonathan what do you rate it and i will give this also i agree for from evil [Laughter] so before i give my rating i have to say that this movie is good because it’s nickelback nickelback is the soundtrack right and i’ll sir and what’s funny is i actually watched the music video and the facial hair i was like what was going on in 2002 there’s some nasty like handlebar mustache and you know nickelback so if you like nickelback you’ll like this movie but um no like kind of my final thoughts about spider-man 2 i think there’s cornerstone movies as far as the importance of comic book movies goes  i would definitely say this movie iron man and avengers dark knight um yes dark knight as well you’re right absolutely so it’s an important movie with all that said i’ll be honest i feel like it isn’t aging as well as i would like it to yeah um therefore i will give it a three and a half 40 year old flash thompson i love that the movie is very of its time it it reeks of early  in some moments so it was macy gray’s in it like exactly yeah freaking me that alone why and nickelback recorded uh all right guys uh but that does it for this review max we want to thank you so much for joining us uh it was a blast uh listeners if you have not checked out ready to retro podcast yet you’re missing out go make your life better listen to their show check out the matrix episode that i guessed it on and really check out any other episodes appreciate that you could follow us at ready2retro on instagram that’s a two and uh yeah we’re on anchor spotify apple podcasts all that great stuff and uh listeners of the dynamic duel podcast just want to say that you know not to reveal everything but you guys what this show is is amazing and you probably don’t know all the work that goes behind the scenes but just know that they you know in conversations i’ve had with joe and johnny they do it for the fans and they want to give you the best show so it’s an honor just to be on here and to collaborate with you guys because you guys are making the geek world so much better with what you’re giving this world and your audience thanks thanks max i appreciate that i mean yeah that was really touching like halfway through i just kept looking at your secret sex lips and just you know we’ll talk later all right guys uh max we’ll uh we’ll talk to you later buddy big fan thanks guys all right uh great guy great show if you have not checked out ready to retro podcast again definitely check it out uh they do have a two in the name of their podcast so it’s ready numeral to retro podcast don’t forget that if you give them a search but let us know what you thought about the movie spiderman by writing to us at dynamicdulepodcast gmail.com or visiting us on facebook instagram or twitter you can find links to all of our accounts by visiting our website dynamicduel.com also don’t forget this week if you go to dynamicduel.com you’ll find a red microphone icon in the bottom right hand corner please don’t forget to go ahead and click on that and leave us up to a 20 second voicemail message we will be leaving your message in our next episode to celebrate the five year anniversary of the show yeah stop by say happy anniversary or happy birthday or just whatever you want to we’d love to hear from you guys please dc fans come on and say how much marvel sucks i would love that and vice versa for the marvel no you don’t need that in our next episode in a tie into this spider-man episode we will be pitting the spider-man villain doctor octopus against the batman villain mr freeze we found a lot of similarities between these two we think it’s gonna be a good matchup we want to remind everyone again to please subscribe to our show if you haven’t or please leave a rating or review on your platform of choice sharing the show on social media or in person is also a big help for us but that does it for this episode we want to give a big thanks to our executive producers ken johnson jace krump john staroski john spees isaiah bethune zachary hepburn and john bechinina for helping make this podcast possible and stay tuned after the show when we include a trailer for the ready to retro podcast we’ll talk to you guys next week up up and away true believers chris you really think that the remake of power rangers was better than avengers end game absolutely 100 percent what is it it is way better no it’s not it’s just way better than that it’s amazing i mean guys guys chelsea we’re running out of time for the commercial wait wait we’re recording that right now that’s happening right now yes right now oh my gosh well what do the people need to know well they need to know where to find us well they can find us on spotify itunes anchor all the regular stuff and they can follow us on instagram if they want to see uh you know social media content yeah at ready to retro but they don’t even know who we are well i’m max and i’m chris and i’m chelsea and we’re ready to retro are you