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May 4, 2021

Suicide Squad vs Defenders

Suicide Squad vs Defenders

• 0:00:00 - Introduction • 0:02:25 - No-Prize Time • 0:08:07 - Finn Wittrock cast as Guy Gardner in HBO Max’s Green Lantern Corps series • 0:10:07 - First look at Kaci Walfall as Naomi in CW series • 0:12:02 - Question of the Week • 0:12:48 - Suicide Squ...

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• 0:00:00 - Introduction • 0:02:25 - No-Prize Time • 0:08:07 - Finn Wittrock cast as Guy Gardner in HBO Max’s Green Lantern Corps series • 0:10:07 - First look at Kaci Walfall as Naomi in CW series • 0:12:02 - Question of the Week • 0:12:48 - Suicide Squad vs Defenders intro • 0:16:29 - Suicide Squad profile and powers • 0:25:11 - Defenders profile and powers • 0:31:36 - Fight speculation • 0:50:20 - Duel results • 0:53:18 - Sign off

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Executive producers: John Speas, Jace Crump, Ken Johnson, Zachary Hepburn, John Starosky and John Bechinina

Vicious by Kevin MacLeod Link:, Long Time Coming by Kevin MacLeod Link:, Take a Chance by Kevin MacLeod Link:, Clash Defiant by Kevin MacLeod Link:, License:

#MarveVsDc #SuicideSquad #Defenders


 [Music] hi welcome to the dynamic duel podcast a weekly show where we review superhero films and debate the superiority between marvel and dc by comparing their characters in stat based battle simulations i’m johnny dc and i’m his twin brother marvelous joe and welcome to our fourth big team battle duel episode that’s right for episode  justice league versus avengers and for episode 150 we did titans vs x-men episode 200 was just a society versus fantastic four and now that we’re doing this every 25 episodes we are pitting the suicide squad against the defenders this is really episode 226 but who’s counting yeah both the suicide squad and the defenders are like the most badass attitude heavy teams of the respective universes yes and for the defenders for this particular matchup what i’m really talking about is the new york manhattan defenders from the comic books the team that was inspired by the netflix defender show consisting of those characters yeah it’s the defenders aka the marvel knights sometimes right marvel street level heroes essentially yeah expect like a real rough-and-tumble gritty fight later on this episode before that we’re gonna break down the comic book movie news from the past week of which it was really just television news dc casting television news finn whit rock has been cast as guy gardner in hbo max’s green lantern core series and we got our first look at casey well fall as naomi for the cw series last week was all marvel news this week it’s all dc as always we list our segment times in our episode description so feel free to check out the show notes if you want to skip ahead to a particular topic and as always guys if you want to support this show there are a number of ways you could do it and everything helps the first way is to follow us on social media particularly instagram where we’re trying to get to 1 000 followers the second way is to rate us or review us on your platform of choice particularly apple podcasts or podchaser and the third way is to follow us on patreon which we’ll be talking about a little bit later thanks to everyone who shows their appreciation for this show by supporting us jonathan and i absolutely appreciate you guys and with that out of the way quick to the no prize a no prize is an award marvel used to give out up until the 90s to fans our version the dynamic duel no prize is a digital award we post on social media that jonathan personally draws for those who we feel gave the best answer to our question of the week yeah last week’s question really didn’t tie into anything marvel or dc it was all about apple’s announcement that they were going to be launching apple podcast subscriptions and we asked what are your thoughts on paying to subscribe to normally free podcast content kind of controversial not surprised we only got three answers but it was important to us to hear your guys’s feedback for those people not in the loop apple podcast subscriptions is basically a way for podcast creators to put their show out there at a price apple is trying to normalize paying for podcasts it’s a big paradigm shift so let’s go down our honorable mentions and then the no prize winner our first honorable mention goes to shane habizan who said what’s up johnny and joe it’s shane and no don’t don’t do it it’s like having to pay to get in to a public park don’t do it so do not follow the words of shia labeouf and just do it just don’t do it that kid’s a goofball but he brings a valid perspective currently the realm of podcasts is like a public park it’s easily accessible to anyone on numerous free platforms that’s absolutely true but while it’s free to visit a public park people actually do get paid to maintain and develop the park through taxpayer dollars through taxpayer dollars i mean we’re kind of losing everything in the metaphor here but the point is that public parks actually aren’t free and i think it’s important to recognize the people that put in the work behind the scenes our next honorable mention goes to michael hagerty who said hey guys michael hagerty here so i think this is a horrible idea because it takes away what makes this show and any other show genuine is the fact that you guys actually love this stuff where any tom dick and harry can now make a podcast put it up put it behind a paywall but all they did was read off wikipedia and if you really want to pay to hear someone talk you might as well just go buy a prostitute at this point because it loses everything he does raise a valid point about selling out which is one of the fears that i have i don’t want to be seen as a sellout the reason jonathan and i do this show is because we love doing it you know it was we never started out trying to make money right the fact that we can now changes almost everything but i don’t want it to you know exactly i want to keep it the way it is i don’t want to [ __ ] myself out there you know for money ultimately then i feel like i’m making the show for you guys which i do but i also feel like i make it for myself and if i’m making it for money then i’m no longer making it for myself in a way does that make sense yeah i do have to say though whether or not this is a horrible idea is kind of irrelevant it’s happening so we have to face it and right now there’s nothing stopping anyone from starting a podcast there’s nothing stopping anyone from reading off of wikipedia on their podcast hopefully you don’t pay as much for that content because it’s you know a little simple jonathan and i have never read off wikipedia and we actually put quite a bit of effort into our character bios you know pulling from multiple sources from the comics from online sources to try to make sure that you guys get the most comprehensive condensed information on these characters that may or may not be content that you deem worth paying for our third and final answer goes to the winner of this week’s no prize mighty madding yin who said hey guys this is maggie and i wouldn’t mind it if you switch to apple podcast because it sounds like just for paying for patreon which i already do but i wouldn’t prefer it because i use spotify for everything that said i don’t think you should do it just because you said a large part of your audience are android users it would be really hard to grow and maintain that audience which i know is a big part of doing what you guys do and this was a very sensible answer i think it definitely looked at all the pros and cons and jonathan and i were both really concerned about the whole apple podcast thing like we don’t want to make listeners have to download a specific app in order to enjoy the show because as we said before a majority of our listeners don’t listen on apple podcasts a vast majority of our listeners are actually on spotify and then podbean and then pandora and then i think apple podcast so we would lose a lot of listeners and we don’t want that no and i have to say i really appreciate biggie madden gehen not only as one of our current patrons he’s just a great dude despite the fact that he keeps trying to push the invincible amazon series and graphic novels on us i won’t hold that against him the type of people who go out of their way to show creators that they appreciate what they’re doing for them and recognize that are really some of the best most selfless people on the planet yeah especially for independent creators like ourselves it means the world so thanks to miggy thanks to all of our patrons thanks to everyone who supports the show again i know that this question of the week was a little off topic i guess it’s not always a fun thing to talk about but we do love hearing from you guys jonathan and i have not made a decision yet as to whether or not we’re going to put this show behind a paywall we really don’t want to but my wife would love me so much more if we did i think it just shows that the the time to monetize this podcast is now and if we can’t get people to pay for this show hopefully we can at least get people to join us on patreon where they get access to bonus content yeah there’s gonna be a lot going on with our patreon soon there’s some exciting stuff brewing yeah specifically merch stuff so if you guys are really pushing for us to keep this show free please also help us by signing up for all those perks i really hope this doesn’t sound like one long patreon pitch but it totally is [Laughter] but let’s move on from it with that out of the way on to the news all right so last week i think it was deadline that broke the news that finn whitrock was going to headline the green lantern hbo max series as the character guy gardner now when they say a headline that doesn’t necessarily imply that it’s the series star but it does mean it’s one of the leading roles for the show if you’re not familiar with finn wit rock he was in american horror story he was also in the big short he’s kind of a pretty boy which is kind of strange when it comes to guy gardner the dude with the bowl cut probably the ugliest green lantern there is and there’s aliens on that team yeah i would never describe guy gardner as a pretty boy i think finn went rock does suit the role though like he has a pretty good case of doucheface what which i think is important for the role of guy gardner because he’s kind of a douche but a douche that everybody loves you should want to punch guy gardner in the face yes like always yeah batman has it was hilarious but guy gardner kind of plays that rebellious role on the team of the green lantern corps now the show is being written by greg berlanti and mark guggenheim who have done a lot of the cw dc shows air rovers right but also seth graham smith who we’ve mentioned before was going to direct the flash but he’s also done like abraham lincoln vampire hunter i’m super excited that they’re starting to announce casting for this i can’t wait to see what other characters are going to be announced but you know i imagine jon stewart you know jessica cruz simon baz sinestro and hopefully hell jordan the studio seems kind of shy with him right now but we’ll see yeah it’s going to be fun not only to see what characters are going to end up in the show but who’s going to be playing them hopefully we get our first glimpse at the series at the upcoming dc fandom event that’s going to take place this october yeah they just announced that i’m totally looking forward to that last year’s event was awesome and i love that they’re doing it again this year marvel wishes they had an annual event like this now while they did have the investors meeting last year where we got a ton of news so you know we’re fine marvel’s doing fine also this past week we got our first look at the show naomi which is an upcoming dc superhero series that will be on the cw now if you’re not familiar with naomi that’s okay the character only came out in 2019 when brian michael bendis started writing for dc comics you have no idea who she is she’s kind of like superman her parents sent her to earth from another dimension and she has these super powers what kind of super powers uh she’s super strong she could fly she could shoot energy that’s basically it okay she’s gonna be played by the actress casey wallfall and we got our first look at her in the role this past week now in this first look photo she’s like looking at a bunch of photographs is she like some kind of detective superhero well she’s trying to piece together her past life in the other dimension there’s a villain from there who’s trying to track her down and she’s trying to figure out why she didn’t know she was from another dimension until early on in the series does she have a superhero outfit she does yeah she sort of has like this powered up form at which point she gets like this golden armor it’s actually a really cool look huh the image they released of her is like a recreation of one of her comic book covers actually i think it was naomi number one so that was kind of cool she’s gone on since then to join teams like young justice alongside characters like robin superboy wonder girl and she’s also appeared like in superman and justice league comics as well she’s kind of been everywhere they’re really trying to sell her and it’s kind of surprising that a character that’s only two years old is getting her own television series so fast i can’t think of another character where things moved that fast well there’s ms marvel but she came out like in 2014 i want to say and she’s getting a show this year so that’s seven years and that seemed fast naomi’s even faster i imagine part of it has to do with ava duvernay and her liking of the character she’s an executive producer of the cw series and she also wrote the pilot okay so it’ll be interesting to see her take on a dc character since eva duvernay’s new gods film was scrapped yeah but in regards to the newness of the character that brings us to our question of the week what new dc or marvel comic book character to come out in the past five years do you hope to see in a live action project so since 2016 what new marvel and dc comic book characters do you want to see in a live action show or movie record your answer at by clicking on the red microphone button in the bottom right hand corner which will prompt you to leave us a voicemail your message can be up to 30 seconds long and don’t forget to leave your name in case we include you on the podcast we’ll pick our favorite answer and draw that person at dynamic duel no prize that will post to social media be sure to answer before may 8th but i think that does it for the news let’s move on to the main event of this episode when we find out who would win in a fight between the dc super villain team the suicide squad and marvel’s street team the defenders okay the suicide squad versus the defenders why these two teams well we planned these episodes pretty far back and when we knew that the suicide squad film was gonna be coming out this year i definitely knew that i wanted to put them in a team duel this year now usually when you think of a marvel team going up against the suicide squad you think the thunderbolts yeah but the thunderbolts ended up being way too powerful between mach 10 and moonstone and atlas those guys would just wipe their asses with people like deadshot and harley quinn and captain boomerang and i mean the suicide squad definitely has its fair share of powerful characters like enchantress like dr polaris but i wouldn’t exactly call them mainstays of the team like you mentioned characters like deadshot captain boomerang harley quinn those are more street level and when it comes to street level members of a marvel team you don’t get better than the marvel knights or the defenders yeah the defenders were never really known as a street level team until recently when the netflix show branded their street level characters as the defenders and when i mean street level i mean characters that usually fight crime in the streets as opposed to on a planetary scale these are the characters that are fighting crime in back alleys at night i’m really going with the team named the defenders for marketing purposes basically for this show since it seems most people are familiar with the name the defenders through the netflix series and there have been several versions of the defenders team in marvel but the most recent version is characters like daredevil and luke cage right we’ll get into our character rosters later on if you’ve never listened to one of our team duel episodes before the way we determine a winner between the teams is by running 1000 monte carlo simulations using their statistics when it comes to matches between multiple characters we’re actually comparing matrices of data right it’s much more involved right because we’ve got to figure out how each character stacks up against each other character now if you’re wondering what a monte carlo simulation is it’s a probabilistic model used to determine outcomes through random sampling and in our case it randomizes statistics along a normal distribution which is a bell curve as a way to simulate the many variables that can occur during battle now the stat parameters that we use are based on the marvel power grid and we use that criteria to extrapolate the dc character stats we’ve also included some additional stat categories of our own such as range damage potential versatility and perception in order to create a more complete and robust simulation running these 1000 simulations gives us a percentage of wins for each team and we declare the team with a higher percentage to be the ultimate victor considering that they’re more likely to win any given battle now no team will ever win 100 of the time comics have shown that there’s always a way for like the suicide squad to beat the justice league so we feel our method falls in line with the precedents that have been established in the comic book stories and we used this method because it was the least subjective most unbiased way to determine who would win of course jonathan and i are both heavily biased toward our respective allegiances and instead of debating these matches forever we just let the math decide for us so there’s no fan votes here and no relying on just feats before we run the simulations though we like to break down each team’s histories and roster before improvising a scenario and how we imagine one of the 1000 simulations we run would play out beat for beat i think it’s my turn to go first so let me tell you all about the suicide squad now i largely went over the history of the suicide squad during our rick flag versus nick fury episode but just to do a quick recap the origins of the squad go back to world war ii where an elite military unit known as squadron s led by captain brick flag senior took on impossible war missions with high mortality rates rick flagg jr would lead another version of the suicide squad decades later under the covert government agency task force x the history of the character of rick flagg was largely intertwined with that of the suicide squad team but so is amanda wallers aka the wall due to her tenacity savvy and brute political tactics as she is responsible for the creation of the modern incarnation of the squad amanda waller grew up in a crime-ridden area of chicago where she and her husband ended up raising their own large family of five kids due to the violence of the area her two eldest children were murdered one at the hands of a serial killer and rapist known as the candyman despite knowing who he was the police were unable to get a conviction due to the lack of witnesses amanda’s husband decided to get justice on his own and he and candyman ended up killing each other swearing that the streets would not take another member of her family amanda worked hard to put the rest of her kids through college then went to college herself excelling and earning a political science degree after managing a highly successful campaign for a local congressional candidate she became a congressional aide and uncovered the secret history of task force x perhaps due to her natural disdain for criminal kind amanda proposed reviving the task force x program with super villain prisoners who were talented easily manipulated easily deniable if something went wrong and ultimately expendable a suicide squad under president ronald reagan’s approval task force x was reactivated with amanda appointed as its director due to his prior experience with task force x brick flag was appointed to serve as amanda’s field leader the two had worked together prior in a rescue mission for bronze tiger who became the team’s first recruit acting as rick’s right-hand man the three then drafted the rest of the first team made up of deathshot captain boomerang enchantress and blockbuster who were all initially offered full pardons if they could stop an apocalyptic fire monster known as brimstone during one of darkseid’s invasions of earth the squad members were initially put in explosive bracelets to ensure their cooperation with amanda or rick able to detonate them if they got out of line but it would just blow off their hand though yeah that would be changed later on to an explosive implanted in their head or neck blockbuster died during the battle but the team did manage to bring brimstone down thanks to deadshot getting a hold of an experimental laser gun their mission was a success and amanda waller tried to go back on her word and re-imprisoned them but the honorable rick flagg let them walk before she could waller having proven her team’s success was allowed to set up task force x operations in bel reeve prison where the prisoners had returned henceforth offered shortened prison sentences instead of full pardons should they survive and succeed in their missions it wasn’t long before the team was called upon to retaliate against a koraki terrorist group known as onslaught after they attacked america the original surviving team members were drafted once again this time with mind boggler plastique nemesis and nightshade as well as former task force x agent and longtime love interest of rick flagg karen grace joining them nemesis and nightshade infiltrated onslaught’s base of operations undercover and though plastique betrayed the team the squad was successful in bringing down the terrorist group suffering only one casualty mind boggler whom captain boomerang could have saved but didn’t because she embarrassed him earlier during a mission to the soviet union to rescue a political prisoner enchantress ended up going on a rampage and the team was caught by the soviet super team known as the people’s heroes during their fight the prisoner the squad was supposed to rescue was killed in the crossfire in the team’s escape nemesis was left behind and captured by the soviets due to the mission’s failure bronze tiger replaced rick flagg as the team leader during the millennium storyline when manhunter secretly invaded earth posing as ordinary humans and superheroes the squad was sent on a mission to blow up a manhunter temple it was during this mission that captain boomerang got slipknot’s hands blown off when he convinced him their explosive bracelets were fake karen grace was revealed to be a member of the manhunter cult and tried to betray the team but she had a last-minute change of heart and sacrificed herself to blow up the temple distraught rick decided to disobey amanda and corralled the team on an illegal mission back to the soviet union to rescue nemesis in order to stop them amanda garnered the help of the justice league international and though the teams fought they were successful in their rescue eventually another politician senator joseph cray learned of the squad’s existence and threatened to reveal their existence to the public unless they assassinated his political rival when rick threatened to kill cray instead deadshot killed the senator so rick didn’t have to detrot was subsequently shot numerous times by police in a shootout but miraculously survived despite the squad’s best efforts to hide its existence police found a press release revealing the existence of task force x by one of cray’s aides and a former assistant to amanda waller it was sent to the daily planet who revealed to the world the suicide squad’s existence amanda waller was put on trial and to improve the public’s perception she sent the squad on a mission to rescue a nun on foreign soil bronze tiger led a team of counter vertigo dr light punch and julie ravon and shrike the last of whom did not survive though the team was successful the government replaced amanda with a man named jack kale though it was later revealed he was an actor hired by amanda and she still controlled the team from behind the scenes though it wasn’t long before she returned to her directorial role of task force x after many more missions many teams and many deaths it was revealed during the salvation run storyline that amanda was using the squad to capture super villains offering that they either joined the squad or get exiled to a distant planet known as salvation using this method amanda successfully removed a majority of earth’s super villains until they found a way back in post-flashpoint continuity harley quinn became a mainstay member of the squad whose members have also included katana killer croc general zod and a new killer frost among others in a battle against the justice league it was revealed that amanda’s original top secret suicide squad roster consisted of lobo rastam dr polaris emerald empress and johnny sarro there have been many members of the suicide squad but some of them are seemingly too popular and prominent on the team to be expendable so those are the ones i tried to pick for my team the ones that either keep getting recruited or simply won’t die rick flagg deadshot and captain boomerang have been members of amanda waller’s suicide squad from the very beginning and since the new 52 reboot of dc’s continuity harley quinn has probably become the face of the team so i’m recruiting her too bronze tiger hasn’t been on the team for a while but he was an important figure on the team for a majority of its history for my final two choices i wanted to go with characters who have not only been on the team multiple times but have also appeared in other suicide squad media king shark was in several of the animated movies and it will appear in the upcoming video game as well as james gunn’s live-action film he was also supposed to be in david ayer’s original film but due to the budget he was replaced with killer croc finally i’m also choosing killer frost as she was in both suicide squad animated films no katana i considered including her but ultimately i chose killer frost over her considering that killer frost has more of a history with the team than katana katana really wasn’t a main player on the team until the new 52 where she sort of supplanted bronze tiger in that right-hand man role for rick flagg oh gotcha well you know what’s the best thing to defeat a team of bad guys a team of heroes let me tell you all about marvel’s the defenders now the defenders are a prominent team within marvel comics known for its revolving door of members largely composed of independent outsider characters who are compelled or forced to work together despite largely following their own agendas the defenders have long been marvel’s non-team as it were known less for its great teamwork and group dynamic and more for being an ever-changing band of badasses that get the job done regardless the first main primary members were doctor strange silver surfer hulk and the submariner but one of the latest incarnations of the team consisted of daredevil luke cage jessica jones and iron fist as a tie into the netflix defenders television series which saw those heroes team up to defend manhattan from the hand ninja clan for this duel i’ll be taking a cue from that ladder team using most of the characters from those netflix series and some of their associates from the comics a team of marvel’s street level heroes they’re more gritty characters known more for stopping bad guys in dark alleys than fighting planetary threats really this will be a combination of the manhattan defenders team and the marvel knights team so i’ll be going into both teams backstories the defenders first formed when doctor strange manipulated namor the submariner and the hulk to aid him in his fight against the evil techno wizard called yandroth after their victory neymar and the hulk vowed to never team up again but doctor strange kept their reluctant alliance intact due to the hero’s true desire to defend others they assisted the silver surfer against the villains known as the undying ones and the primary team was formed calling themselves the defenders they had no formal membership rules no headquarters and no fixed roster allowing anyone who fought alongside the group to be a member often heroes would join the team and leave after several adventures such as hawkeye luke cage daredevil iron fist and moon knight but the defender soon found more mainstay members in the asgardian warrior valkyrie the occult hero gargoyle the reformed villain nighthawk the half demon hellstorm and the heroine hellcat the team’s ever shifting roster often battled planetary and galaxy level threats including dormammu the emissaries of evil and even skirmished against the avengers after being manipulated by loki the two teams eventually teamed up to take on the villain together and you can learn more about the avengers in our justice league versus avengers episode eventually the founding members doctor strange silver surfer submariner and hulk left the team after a false alien prophecy convinced them that together they would lead to the earth’s destruction with their most powerful members gone the defenders were formally reorganized by the former x-men member beast as the new defenders with several other fellow mutants archangel and iceman you can learn more about the x-men in our titans vs x-men episode many of the new defenders team died in a battle with the dragon of the moon and the team was inactive for some time eventually the original four members were reunited through a curse from their old nemesis yandroth that would force them to teleport to each other whenever the earth was in danger seeing no end to the curse dr strange silver surfer submariner and hulk rebranded from the defenders to the order forcefully ending threats by any means necessary they were freed from their curse with help from their former defenders colleagues and the four once more vowed to never team up again though the defenders reluctantly did team up a few other times over the years including a short-lived government-sanctioned team after the events of civil war and to fight against atuma and the death celestials though the team never really gained any traction meanwhile prior to the superhuman civil war the former member daredevil tried to form a team of street level heroes to protect new york city he recruited black widow moon knight luke cage shanxi the punisher and dagger to join his cause though like the defenders this unnamed team was composed of independent outsider characters that failed to gel into a lasting unit so that team wasn’t officially called marvel knights no the comic book that featured them was titled marvel knights because it was part of the marvel knights imprint but the actual team never called themselves that they were a nameless just street level team many of these street heroes were more successful in joining together when they formed a new defenders team to fight against diamondback and the hand ninja clan these heroes included daredevil luke cage jessica jones and iron fist and they were later assisted by other heroes including the punisher elektra black cat and white tiger for this matchup the defenders team i’m going with will be a combination of the former defenders members over time with a specific focus on the street level heroes that have been part of the group including daredevil luke cage and iron fist the punisher who also had his own netflix show elektra who is also prominent in those series moon knight who wasn’t in the netflix shows but has been a member of the comics defenders and is getting his own disney plus series soon and lastly black widow who everyone knows as an avenger but who has worked frequently with these other heroes on the marvel knights team that’s my ultimate gritty vigilante team daredevil black widow luke cage iron fist punisher elektra and moon knight they kick all kinds of ass in manhattan at night and eat petty criminals like the suicide squad for breakfast so black widow was not a member of the defenders but she was in the marvel knights yeah i’m using the defender’s name for like again marketing purposes for this matchup but essentially this is marvel’s street team as i see it daredevil’s street defenders team didn’t have enough members and the defenders had never had a secure roster anyway and to me black widow has always been more of a grounded hero with more in common with these shadowy characters than with the bright colorful world of the avengers what about jessica jones why didn’t you go with her uh i swapped out jessica jones for black widow essentially because not only has black widow worked with more of these characters longer i thought she brought a more varied skill set to the fight and her stats are a little bit better okay okay i see i mean i think you did a pretty good job you know if your ultimate goal is to assemble an ultimate team of marvel street heroes that’s not a bad roster at all yeah well again the way i view this is as the defenders street team matched up with the marvel knights i just figured i’d refer to them overall as the defenders because of the netflix show and if you want to learn more about any of those characters be sure to check out their individuel duel episodes where i go into their individuel histories yeah that’s for the marvel characters on your team and for the dc characters we always make sure that we choose from a roster of characters in duel episodes that we’ve already done so you can hear all about them if you’re not familiar with them yeah we try to usually pick a balanced roster of characters balanced with each other by pairing the characters up so we kind of paired deadshot with daredevil harley quinn with black widow king shark with luke cage killer frost with iron fist bronze tiger with elektra rick flagg with punisher and captain boomerang with moon knight so it should be a pretty good matchup and now that we’ve gone over the histories and rosters of the teams let’s speculate on how one of the 1000 simulated matches will go the winning team is determined by simulations not this speculation but it’s fun to imagine how this fight could play out and we don’t set any rules for this match other than the two teams don’t know anything about each other going in except that the other team is a threat that needs to be put down and the two groups start off about 50 meters apart in an environment that has no bearing on the match itself because we don’t take stats for the environment plus certain characters have advantages in some environments over others and we want these characters to win on their own merit so let’s get into it the teams meet on the battlefield who goes first who would go first this time it’s so weird because you finally don’t have a flashlight i know right character i was just thinking that on your team i’m gonna say that uh i’m gonna have deadshot go first he’s just gonna straight up shoot luke cage right in the face doesn’t know he’s bulletproof just wants to take someone out early he wants to take out the big guy first exactly makes sense but as we all know luke cage is bulletproof so that bullet is just going to ricochet off of luke cage’s face and he’s be like what the [ __ ] and then punisher is gonna respond by pulling out this mini gun and he’s just gonna start mowing down the entire suicide squad group with his mini gun dang he’s going for the kill shots just like that shot right out the gate yep yep okay uh the killer frost she’s gonna throw up this ice wall to protect the team she’s just gonna absorb all the heat in front of them creating this ice shield okay so there’s this big ice wall between the two groups but punisher is still just gonna keep shooting that ice wall i mean it’s a pretty thick wall and sure let him waste his bullets meanwhile captain boomerang he’s just gonna hurl a boomerang around the wall that just like embeds itself into the minigun and just blows it up so with the mini gun out of commission at that point surprise king shark bursts through the wall along with the rest of the suicide squad and they just charge out in a frenzy okay king shark probably tries to like eat elektra well elektra is gonna see this giant shark man coming at her she dodges his bite and then she jams one of her sigh into his mouth uh so that he can’t clamp down ow and then she just sweeps his legs and he falls onto his back and she jumps on him and uh just stabs them right in the heart with her other side i mean she’s not like aware of where his anatomy is he’s not human you know is his heart in a different place i don’t even know about shark’s heart you don’t know exactly so i’m gonna say that she misses his heart all right okay king shark he’s just gonna pull the sight out and just knock her away with the super strength meanwhile harley quinn you know probably sees moon knight who kind of looks like batman but he has the white hood so she’s probably like down with the clan but she just like hits him right in the balls with her giant mallet and moon knight drops to the ground and he’s like but i’m jewish [Laughter] she didn’t know that and then rick flag you know he’ll just throw a grenade into the crowd into the marvel group except daredevil senses this grenade in rick flag’s hand and he hurls one of his billy clubs and just knocks it out of rick flag’s grasp before he can throw it and the grenade lands next to harley quinn and then explodes no no she sees it and she’s like hot potato and then she basically plays croquet with it you know using her mallet to hit it back towards the marvel guys okay well we’ll say that the grenade lands next to luke cage who just covers it right before it explodes containing the concussive force oh convenient yeah iron fist he’s gonna like scan the opposing team until probably sense bronze tigers martial arts chi so he’s gonna flip over to him and those two are gonna go at it he’s like ah we’re the opponent exactly and bronze tiger is gonna like try to slash iron fist with his razor sharp wolverine claws but iron fist is gonna block those blades with the sight of his hand just channeling his iron fist energy into it and making his hands like iron so he blocks bronze tiger’s blades and then just punches him away with his other iron fist okay so killer frost is gonna see that and she’s gonna just encase iron fist in a block of ice so now he’s frozen he can’t move but black widow like she recognizes that killer frost is the most potent threat on this battlefield so she sneakily worked her way around the battle and she stuns killer frost with her widow’s bite before killer frost can freeze anybody else okay so killer frost is like knocked out yeah she’s stunned and then luke cage is gonna see that his buddy iron fist is frozen so he’s gonna run over to him and just break iron fist out of the ice and iron fist is fine he was able to you know use his chi to regulate his own internal temperature so he didn’t freeze to death while he was frozen okay i guess meanwhile captain boomerang will be just throwing a volley of boomerangs at electra except every single one of these boomerangs is gonna get knocked out of the air by daredevil who jumps in and starts whipping around his billy club you know attached to the line using his radar senses to knock every boomerang out of the air like a badass and captain boomerang is probably like boy that’s cheating mate [Laughter] and captain boomerang is going to get cut off mid-sentence by the punisher who punches boomer right in his face okay and then breaks his kneecap geez just shatters that thing like boomer’s leg is like an l the wrong way that’s messed up so boomer falls to the ground and then punisher just pulls out a gun and shoots him in the head no because deadshot is going to shoot punisher’s trigger finger off what before he could do so okay so punisher is coming under fire from deadshot he’s gonna yank captain boomerang off the ground and use him as a human shield okay i mean deadshot doesn’t really give two shits about boomer but he’s not gonna kill his own man all right so if punisher is covered by captain boomerang ditch is probably just gonna like shoot right through captain boomerang’s like shoulder to hit the punisher’s shoulder causing him to drop boomer and that’s when deadshot just straight up shoots punisher in the head except that he misses he never misses this time he misses because deadshot’s mind was all clouded by elektra causing him to miss and she jumps into the fray and kicks deadshot square in the head and jams her sigh into the barrel of deadshot’s wrist gun so that he can’t use it and then the two start fighting hand to hand okay that was a good move let’s say moon knight and bronze tiger are also fighting cant to hand just trading these brutal punches with their spiked fists and claws yeah that’s right moon knight has his spiked like brass knuckles cestus yeah but i’m gonna say that in the course of their battle bronze tiger is probably gonna steal like a pair of moon knights and nunchucks well that’s like kick the [ __ ] out of him but moon knight’s gonna disable bronze tigers like nunchuck swinging arm by throwing his crescent darts into bronze tiger’s wrist forcing him to drop that weapon okay that probably pisses bronze tiger off uh to counter that he he’s gonna turn her to his tiger form and then he’s just gonna angrily like maul moon knight how does bronze tiger turn into a tiger again and the new 52 he had like a talisman that could turn him into like a humanoid tiger okay okay so moon knight gets mauled but you know he he does have strength that waxes and wanes with the moon and we’ll say you know on average he’s stronger than your average human and so he’s able to take this tiger mauling a little bit better than your average superhero but regardless luke cage is going to jump in and just yank bronze tiger off of moon knight and just freaking hurl him a quarter mile away dang yeah yeah he just eats that tiger okay you know who’s also that strong king shark he’s gonna jump in and just try and bite off luke cage’s head which you already know means that he’ll come away with a mouthful of broken teeth well i mean sharks have like rows of teeth and those things fall out all the time so he’ll be fine but uh he’s just gonna do to luke cage what luke cage did to bronze tiger he’s gonna lift him up and just hurl him far away copycat meanwhile while this is going on harley quinn is gonna smash in black widow with her mallet you mean try to smash black widow in who’s gonna be dodging this unwieldy sledgehammer and black widow is gonna backhand spring away and then shoot out a grapple line from her wrist bracelets that wraps around harley’s hammer and blakura’s just going to yank it out of her grasp and then she’s going to jump over and do the luchador leg grapple spin flip thing that she does all the time in the movies like in iron man 2 and just slam harley quinn into the ground is that the move where she like puts her crotch in your face and like twists around you yeah harley quinn’s probably gonna like this yeah yeah she’s probably gonna be like hey at least buy me dinner first [Laughter] but harley gets slammed to the ground and then black widow just stabs harley with one of her combat knives noah because before she could do that rick flack shoots black widow in the side to get her off of harley okay but iron fist is going to snatch rick flag’s gun out of his hand and then use his iron fist to crush it and then he’s gonna do this double kick to rick flag’s chest like launching him right into moon knight who has his bow staff and is just gonna clothesline rick flagg oh that’s a sweet combo teamwork makes the dream work that’s really going to hurt rick flag like he’s just a normal human that’s going to mess them up meanwhile elektra and deadshot are fighting and elektra is going to stab deadshot right through his shoulder disabling one of his arms and deadshot falls to the ground and she straddles him and just stabs him right through the neck okay but captain boomerang is probably jealous that deadshot is getting straddled so he’s he managed to crawl on the ground and grab one of electra’s other sides the side that fell out of king shark’s mouth and he just hurls it at elektra preventing her from delivering that killing blow well elektra is going to expertly tilt her head out of the way of the oncoming sigh and sees that captain boomerang was the one that threw it at her you know she doesn’t spot the returning sigh which boomeranged around back towards her and just impaled her in the chest no that’s right captain boomerang can boomerang anything yes boom elektra is dead out of the match impaled by her own psy again well daredevil is just gonna knock boomerang out with his billy club and swing over to boomer and just beat the [ __ ] out of him like smash his teeth in break his arms and legs daredevil won’t kill captain boomerang but for all intents and purposes boomer is now like a quadriplegic and capable of moving anymore and he’s out of this match but also to make sure the punisher is going to come over and stab captain boomerang right in the face with a combat knife dang that’s excessive you didn’t need to do that that’s overkill that’s the punisher so now captain boomerang’s dead okay uh meanwhile rick flagg he’s gonna be fighting moon knight all right and uh he has out his side scimitar and we know it’s probably trying to like dodge and block it with his bow staff but rick is just gonna slice right through that thing with his weapon and then rick is just gonna grab moon knight’s hood and pull it down over his face so he can’t see and inject a mini bomb into his neck i knew that was coming but before rick flag can detonate moon knight’s neck bomb moonlight just slashes rick flag across the guts with one of his crescent blades just disemboweling him and moon knight just glides away i mean i think even if you’re being disembelled you’re not gonna die like instantaneously so before he bleeds out rick is just gonna you know hit the trigger button and moon as he’s gliding away his head is just going to explode moonlight didn’t deserve that but it’s not a total loss since rick flag is almost certainly dead now too yeah they kind of both killed each other but at this point luke cage comes back into the battlefield and picks up deadshot who’s weakened from being stabbed by elektra and he slams deadshot down to the ground okay but from the ground deadshot pulls out a gun with his good arm and just shoots luke cage in the head and the bullet bounces off again actually it ricochets off of luke cage intentionally and hits the punisher right through the neck oh [ __ ] yeah deadshot knew that luke cage was bulletproof so he just used him to pull off a trick shot smart and now the punisher is dead he was shot through the neck so he’s actually probably bleeding out with his like dying breath punisher is going to pull a grenade and then stumble over to king shark before exploding and taking out king shark with him i don’t know if a grenade would kill king shark but he you know he’s probably pretty injured by it yeah and king shark will fall to the ground and iron fist is going to flip over uh to deliver the killing blow by firing up his chiefest and punching through his head and right when the fist is coming down king shark’s just gonna open his mouth and bite his arm off but iron fist’s arm is like iron now you said his fist was not like the whole arm which is what gets bent on so king shark bites off iron fist’s arm as he’s dying from the grenade and the iron fist punch okay but as iron fist is kind of like in shock from his arm bronze tiger is gonna appear and just slice off his other arm with his bladed claws god really taking advantage of the situation so iron fist is now without fists he’s like the iron stump uh so now iron face is like in double shock that he just lost both of his arms exactly now he’s defenseless bryce hagger’s just gonna slash his jugular and just take him out of the match except before bronze tiger can finish him off he gets shot in the head by black widow so bronze tiger’s dead okay uh harley quinn is going to see that and she’s going to start shooting a black widow and the two are probably going to like trade fire until they run out of bullets all right okay like dodging each other’s gunfire exactly yeah they’re both pretty agile gymnasts right right so eventually they’re gonna have to take this to close quarters combat at which point harley quinn pulls out a canister that emits joker venom and just gasses black widow black widow just slowly gets jokerized harley quinn of course is immune to the joker venom and being jokerized kills you or turns you into the joker it kills you with a smile on your face oh [ __ ] so black wood was dead and the gas didn’t affect harley no because she was immune to all toxins like the joker okay so black widow dies but daredevil is gonna take out deadshot how did trots just gonna shoot him if bullseye can’t hit daredevil deadshot can’t because daredevil can sense what’s coming so he just lays down a savage beatdown on deadshot geez detroit is like really getting injured in this match okay but harley quinn is gonna see ditcha getting the [ __ ] beat out of him by daredevil so she’s gonna try and protect him she’s gonna pull out this like baseball sized black acme bomb with a fuse okay ignite it toss it into the air and with her baseball bat she’s gonna hit it over to daredevil to like blow him up before he could finish off deadshot except daredevil’s gonna know that this bomb is coming at him because he’s gonna be able to smell the explosive powder and everything like that so he’s just gonna get the hell out of there and this bomb is gonna bounce like next to deadshot and then explode killing deadshot what she just scored a goal against her own team she’s probably like whoopsies [Laughter] so deadshot’s dead and luke cage grabs harley quinn and wraps her in like this bear hug and just crushes her spine no because just before luke cage could grab harley quinn i’m gonna say that killer frost appears behind him oh and grabs him just sucking all of the internal heat from his body so now he’s just like frozen and lifeless she froze his insights well i mean she pulled the heat from his entire body and he just falls to the ground like a statue his insides just shattering but his outside’s still solid i honestly forgot about keller frost like she got stunned by black widow way early in this match i forgot she was still around that’s what i wanted you to think well iron fist sees luke cage die and he gets angry he’s gonna kill killer frost even though he doesn’t have arms left he’s gonna channel his chi into an iron kick and iron fist is gonna like hurricane spin kick killer frost right in the face so hard that it’s gonna spin her whole head around snapping her neck that’s crazy vengeance for his friend killer frost is out okay but i got another surprise for you what king shark regenerates so out of nowhere king shark just swallows iron fist whole no king shark is dead the grenade explosion iron fist punching him through his face he bit off the arm yeah iron fist lost his arm right there but his fist still went through his head didn’t it yeah shark brains are small he missed they’re small yeah sorry [Laughter] okay so king shark regenerated swallowed iron fist hole but as iron fist is going down king shark’s esophagus he turns his entire body onto a thing of iron and king shark just chokes to death on iron fist so king shark kills iron fist iron fist kills king shark so really it’s only daredevil and harley quinn left on the battlefield as the sole survivors wow and they’re gonna be hand to hand fighting they’re both extremely agile so there’s gonna be a lot of flipping involved as they try to punch each other a lot of acrobatics but luckily harley quinn has a lot more tricks up her sleeve than daredevil he’s kind of like a one-trick pony i know that radar sense will go a long way i’m gonna say that she’s gonna pull out a piece of gum okay the gum is a sticky bomb so as soon as he gets close she just sticks it right on him and boom he’s gone you don’t think daredevil would see that coming a mile away figuratively speaking she’s gonna stick this sticky gum bomb which you obviously stole from mission impossible oh did i i did and when she’s distracted daredevil’s gonna stick the bubble gum bomb back onto her and when it explodes she’s gonna blow her own self up no no the fuse on this thing is like really short this goes off before he could stick it to her agree to disagree but we could leave the match there either daredevil blows up from the bubblegum bomb or harley quinn does let’s find out which scenario happened by compiling the stats on these two teams running the simulations and coming up with a winner let’s do it [Music] good gosh it always takes so long with these team matches to find a result yeah it’s almost like running 49 regular matches because it’s seven characters for seven characters so it takes a while but we have the results yeah they weren’t too shocking it turns out that the most powerful character of all of them was killer frost and the weakest was bronze tiger so i had the strongest and weakest on my team yeah where my team was a little bit more balanced and well-rounded except for elektra who was my weakest character but yeah killer frost and king shark just crushed it they were maybe a little bit too powerful blue cage was no slouch neither was iron fist those were your two most powerful characters yeah definitely now stat wise the numbers that stood out were like versatility for captain boomerang the guy basically has a boomerang for everything but also strength for king shark and fighting skill for bronze tiger luke cage was maxed out in durability he was by far the strongest member of my team iron fist was also pretty strong and was an ace in martial arts it should also come as no surprise that daredevil was the best out of all the characters when it came to perception oh yeah oh yeah but given all this data who do you think came out on top i think it’s gonna be really close um i’m hoping that the defenders come out on top either way i’m expecting this to be within one or two percentage points although according to the polls on social media much more of our audience thought that suicide squad would win with 62 percent of them choosing suicide squad over the defenders seems pretty high suicide squad is just way cooler no that’s not right well let’s look at the results the winning team of this matchup between the suicide squad and the defenders is the suicide squad ah my heart hurts they won by one percentage point oh that’s not actually that bad actually i meant two percentage points it’s 51 to 49 so out of the 1000 matches the suicide squad won  defenders that is really close that’s not as close as our titans versus x-men match but it is closer than our justice society versus fantastic four duel this actually came out a lot closer than i thought it would i’m really glad i chose killer frost over katana if you would have gone with katana like i told you to this would have ended up better for me i don’t know i mean i play to win what can i say you know plus i still think killer frost is a more true member of the suicide squad than katana katana to me is more of an outsider she’s part of that team the outsiders yeah and i needed someone to go toe-to-toe with iron fist who i thought was going to be the most powerful member of your team yeah but it was luke cage yeah just barely well i guess this one is only fair considering that uh i’ve won two team duels by this point now you have as well so best three out of five oh yeah bring it on we’ll see who wins our next team duel this october when we pit justice league dark against the midnight suns yeah that’s our next big team duel matchup for episode 250 on october 19th right before halloween we figured we’d go with the spooky themed matchup justice league dark of course is dc supernatural team the midnight suns is marvel’s so we’re talking like constantine versus doctor strange versus dead man versus ghost writer and all those supernatural heroes it’s gonna be a great time but until then we have a ton of fun individuel duels to get through as well as film and television reviews including daredevil which we will be reviewing in our next episode as a tie-in to this one that’s right we’ll be reviewing the  affleck jennifer garner michael clark duncan and colin farrell it’s been forever since i’ve seen that film it’s been a while for me as well let’s see how well it holds up after the netflix series i imagine not too well probably not but look forward to that next week that does it for this duel let us know what you thought about the results by writing to us at dynamicduelpodcast or by visiting us on facebook instagram or twitter you can find links to all of our accounts by visiting our website and on our site you can also find a link to our patreon page where we offer bonus content and access to our discord server check it out right after this episode again our lowest patreon tier is only two dollars a month also on is a link to our merch store where we sell t-shirts hoodies stickers and more with our dynamic duel no prize artwork i’ll be trying uh dead shot i’ve done deathshot in the past but it sucks i’m getting better over time and i want another crack at it yeah yeah that’ll be cool we want to remind everyone to again please subscribe to our show if you haven’t or please leave a rating or review on your platform of choice sharing the show on social media or in person is also a really big help for us but that does it for this episode we want to give a big thanks to our executive producers ken johnson jace krump john strarovsky john spees zachary hepburn and john betchinina for helping make this podcast possible and we’ll talk to you guys next week up up and away true believers