Vandal Savage vs Sebastian Shaw

This is a DynaMic Network Podcast. 

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Shop now before heroes and villains alike sell out at OldGlory.com. Hi, welcome to the Dynamic Duel Podcast, a weekly show where we review superhero films and debate the superiority between Marvel and DC by comparing their characters in stat-based battle simulations. I'm Johnny DC. 

And I'm his twin brother, Marvelous Joe. And in this episode we are doing a duel between two classic and classic looking DC and Marvel villains, Vandal Savage against Sebastian Shaw. We didn't think that we were actually going to get to this duel episode, but we had a few openings largely because we won't be reviewing Wonder Man before the podcast ends in mid-January because Wonder Man got pushed back. 

So yeah, that left the opening. I'm really glad to be squeezing in Sebastian Shaw into one of these duels because he's a total badass X-Men villain and I thought he was done really well in the X-Men first class film played by Kevin Bacon. Yeah, and Vandal Savage is a really prominent DC villain who I'm surprised we haven't gotten to yet. He was the main antagonist of Legends of Tomorrow Season 1, but you know, he's also shown up pretty much all over DC media, including being the main villain of several animated films. Yeah, like Justice League Doom or Suicide Squad Hell to Pay. But before we get into that duel, we're going to break down the comic book movie news from the past week, of which there wasn't movie news, but there was comic book news and that this past week was the release of the Batman Deadpool crossover comic book that featured new DC and Marvel crossover stories that we're going to talk about. 

As always, we list our segment times and our episode description, so feel free to check out the show notes if you want to skip ahead to a particular topic. Our artificially intelligent duel simulator, AJ9K, has a quick message for our listeners, so listen up. 

Why hello there. Do you want even more from this podcast? Then become a part of the Dynamic Duo community on Patreon where you can choose from three tiers. The Dynamic Duo tier gives you access to our Discord chat server, the Fantastic Four tier gives you two bonus episodes each month, and the X-Force tier makes you an executive producer of this show. Lastly, the Diner Mike podcast network tier lets you create your own podcast using this Monte Carlo simulator. Johnny and Joe will help you develop your show, provide graphic support and consultation, and get you simulation results. Pitch the twins your ideas via email at dynamicdualpodcast at gmail.com. Check it out at patreon.com slash dynamicdual. Pip pip cheerio. 

Thanks AJ9K and thanks to everyone who supports the podcast. Be sure to tune in to the other shows in the Diner Mike podcast network this week, including the Konsole Kombat podcast, where hosts John and Dean simulate battles between popular video game characters. In yesterday's episode, they found out who would win between the boss from Metal Gear and Colonel Mail Radick from Killzone. Over on the Max Destruction podcast hosts Scotty and Gilly pit your favorite action heroes from film and television against each other. The Macho Twins are taking a quick break for the month of November, but they'll be back in December with some Christmas season duels. On the Senjoh World podcast, host Zachary Hepburn speculates on fights between fan favorite anime and manga characters. In his next episode, Zach is revealing who would win between Shigeyo Kagayama, aka Mob from Mob Psycho 100, and Tatsumaki the tornado of terror from One Punch Man. 

Visit dynamicpodcasts.com or click the link in our show notes to listen to all the shows in the Diner Mike podcast network. But with that out of the way, quick to the no prize. A no prize is an award that Marvel used to give out to fans. 

Our version, the dynamic duel no prize, is a digital award we post on Instagram for the person that we feel gave the best answer to our question of the week. Last week, we asked you guys, what Marvel versus DC crossover have you always wanted to see in the comic books? And why? We got a few answers, so let's run down our honorable mentions as well as the no prize winner. Our first honorable mention goes to Was, who I'm just going to assume is Steve Wasniak, the co-founder of Apple. 

He said, Hi, this is the Was, and I'm calling to give my opinion on who I would want to see from DC and Marvel fight. And maybe this has already been done in the comics and I just haven't seen it. You can let me know. But I want to see Superman versus the Hulk, because what really can kill the Hulk? Not much anything. 

So I'm not surprised you didn't know the answer to this, Steve Wasniak, because you were helping to develop Apple in the mid 90s when the DC versus Marvel comic crossover came out, in which Superman did in fact fight the Hulk and defeat him. Yeah. So wasn't the Superman Hulk matchup one of the voted on battles within that comic book series? 

I believe it was, yes. So really, it was just a popularity contest. The Hulk could have won if the fans had voted that way. But luckily, we have a podcast that has determined that Superman would in fact beat the Hulk, no matter which iteration, because Superman is just better. We don't know that. 

We haven't determined that. What are you talking about? Kingdom Come Superman beat Maestro. Oh, yeah. Bizarro beat Abomination. 

Isn't that enough? I still think there's a chance that the Hulk can beat Superman. We'll see. Maybe in a few months, we'll actually run the stats on that. Hey, shut up. Great answer, Steve Wasniak. Our next honorable mention goes to Daniel Alonso, who said, 

Okay, so I know this is going to be really hard for everybody because DC has so very few actually good characters that are cool. But one that I actually just really, really, really would love to see is King Daredevil and Fallen Grayson Nightwing team up together. I think that would be so sick if like they were going up against the hand that teamed up with the quarter vowels. I mean, come on. And they would look amazing. 

Yeah, they would look amazing because of their beards, right? This is the era of each character's arcs where they grew heavy beards. Daredevil had taken over as like the new kingpin and he had some magical amped up senses. 

Yeah. And in the Fallen Grayson storyline, Dick Grayson is captured and seemingly killed. So they have to essentially fake his death. And during that time, he became a secret agent who, yes, also had a beard. 

And then going up against the hand and the quarter vowels. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Great answer, Daniel Alonso. Our final honorable mention would go to by Dear Bangor. But unfortunately, the audio was too quite to make out, but we still want to say thank you for calling in. The winner of this week's snow prize is Alex 

Albro, who said, Hey guys, for me, it's got to be Black Panther versus Hawkman. Maybe they're trying to enhance new medical security weaponry developments with vibranium keeping out extraterrestrial threats the whole deal. And they realize it's not enough and they need to use enthmetal. Hawkman doesn't take too kindly to this and decides maybe he wants vibranium for himself and his people. And so it just brings down the wrath of Danagar and Wakanda. I think seeing these two guys go to war would be epic. I think they have a lot more in common than the Metsuii. And this would just be insane. 

This sounds amazing as everyone knows metal that can absorb vibrations is way better than metal that can defy gravity. I mean, is it? I don't think it is. I think gravity defying metal and really universal forces defying metal is way cooler than just metal that fucking vibrates, bro. It doesn't vibrate. It absorbs vibrations. 

You're confusing it for Antarctic vibranium. Think about it. Would you rather stop vibrations or freaking fly? It's essentially bulletproof metal. I mean, so is a lot of metals. Fair enough. 

Fair enough. I think the dynamic between a character like Black Panther and Hawkman would play out pretty well, too, though. They're both pretty badass. Oh, yeah. 

Yeah. I would love to see those characters crossover. Who do you think would win in a fight between the Wakandans and the Thanagarians? 

Oh, Thanagarians. All they would have to do is just drop a bomb on them from space. Although Wakandans would have to do is just fire a missile at them from Earth. Oh, and then they could just move their ship out of orbit and dodge the missile entirely. Can you move Wakanda? 

No, but it has a protective dome. So, oh, yeah, that's right. Air superiority, my man. 

What else can I say? Well, Wakandans were the first people from Earth to really start interstellar colonies. So I mean, they're no strangers to space. Oh, they're just starting out. 

That's cute. No, they've been at it for a while. Like it was due to a time anomaly. There are Wakandan space colonies in Marvel Comics. 

Full on. Dude, Thanagar is a space empire. Think of them like the Shi'ar. The Wakandans are nothing like the Shi'ar. No, they're better. Do they have an imperial guard? 

No, but they have the Dormalage. Anyway, we're getting off track here. We could probably dedicate an entire episode to Wakanda versus Thanagar, I think. Just hold your thoughts. 

Let's agree that Wakanda would win. Let's move on. So thank you, Alex Albra, for calling in with your no prize winning answer. 

Oh, I'm not ready to move on. If you, the listener, want a shot at winning your own no prize, stay tuned to later on this episode when we'll be asking another question of the week. But now that that's done, you know why Thanagar would win? 

Why? Because they reincarnate, whereas Wakandans just go to their ancestral plane and they could stay there. But it's not like they fall down dead and then rise up right away. 

They reincarnate like on the other side of the fucking universe. So it's fine. It's fine. 

They move fast. OK. And now that that's done, on to the news. All right, last week, we talked to you guys about the digital comic books that Marble and DC released that were crossovers for Thor and Shazam and The Flash and Fantastic Four. Those digital issues were released in lead up to this past week's physical comic book release of Batman Deadpool, which was the second part of a comic book crossover between Marvel and DC. We talked about the Deadpool Batman crossover when that came out. 

And we talked about what we liked and didn't like from the issue. I do have to say that the DC series of stories didn't blow me away like the Marvel one did. Like I was a huge fan of the Deadpool Batman crossover story written by Zeb Wells. 

I was a big fan. Grant Morrison wrote this issues, Batman, Deadpool crossover. And, you know, Grant Morrison is a he's a legend. 

He's really talented. That being said, I found his work in this issue to be a little bit masturbatory for lack of a better word, because not only did he insert himself into the story, he also inserted his Cassandra Nova and Damien Wayne creations. And the story in all was just a little all over the place. It wasn't as clean and pure as the Zeb Wells story. Well, you know, with Grant Morrison, his stories haven't been cleaned for a long time. 

I'm not a huge Grant Morrison fan. Really? I think because of that reason. I think if you're going to tell a good story, it shouldn't be that dense. It shouldn't be that difficult to interpret what is going on. He's like the Christopher Nolan of comic book writers. 

He tries to be, but he's less accessible. You know, I thought the story was actually really good upon second read, but you had to read it twice to appreciate it. Sometimes that's just the case with like nonlinear storytelling. 

There are a lot of stories out there that I enjoy more upon second read or second rewatch. Well, it's not about enjoying it more. It's about basically understanding it. And I understood it more the second time. Therefore, I enjoyed it more. It's a choice. It's a choice that I think proves to be less successful than the Marvel version of the crossover. I do think you're right in that Marvel is better than DC. Yes. 

I did not say that. Yeah, it's hard to tell which set of stories was better because while the Marvel release had the better Deadpool Batman story, it also had shit like The Dark Knight, an old man Logan story and like the crypto and Jeff the Landshark story. There was nothing that was quite as pointless in this DC issue. In addition to the Batman Deadpool story, we also got Constantine meets Doctor Strange, Nightwing and Laura Kinney's Wolverine, Harley Quinn and the Hulk and Static versus Miss Marvel. And I enjoyed all of those, except for maybe the Harley Quinn Hulk one. I was expecting more from that, although I don't know why. Yeah, that was my least favorite, too. The rest were fine. 

Overall, a decent effort. And the last comic, my favorite was the Wonder Woman Captain America story. And this one, I would say my favorite was the Nightwing Wolverine one. That was good. I also really liked the Static Miss Marvel one. It was really short, but it was nice to see the parallels between the two characters. I'll leave it vague there. 

We highly recommend visiting your local comic book store and picking up a few issues of Deadpool Batman and Batman Deadpool. Take advantage of this historical moment while you can, folks. It only happens once every few decades. I mean, I hope they do more crossovers. I'm actually really loving this Infiniverse or whatever they want to call it, where the two universes join together. And next time they better do a Hawkman Black Panther story. That would be cool. I would also accept a Black Panther Aquaman story. 

Oh, that'd be cool, too, for sure. But speaking of comic book crossovers within this issue, that brings us to our question of the week. What was your favorite story within the Batman Deadpool crossover comic? 

And why this is for the comic book readers out there? Those of you who picked up and read the issue, go ahead and record your answer at dynamicdool.com by clicking on the red microphone button in the bottom right hand corner of the screen, which will prompt you to leave us a voicemail. Your message could be up to 30 seconds long, and don't forget to leave your name in case we include you on the podcast. We'll pick our favorite answer and award that person a dynamic duel no prize that will post to Instagram. Be sure to answer before November 29th. 

But that is it for all of the news for this episode. Let's go ahead and move on to the main event where we find out who is going to win between the villain characters of Vandal Savage and Sebastian Shaw. Vandal Savage vs Sebastian Shaw OK, Vandal Savage vs Sebastian Shaw. Now, for the longest time, I didn't really know who we could pit Vandal Savage against considering his main power is essentially that he's immortal. 

He has something of a healing factor as well. But I couldn't figure out who a good analog would be against him until whenever executive producers, Devin Davis, suggested pitting him against Sebastian Shaw largely because of how the characters look. They both look very, I guess you could say, Victorian. I guess you could describe it as that they both wear very old fashioned suits, like three piece suits. It's part of the wardrobe for the inner circle of the Hellfire Club, of which Sebastian Shaw is one of the leaders. Traditionally, he's known as the Black King because all of the inner circle members are named after chess pieces. 

Yeah, they have an interesting wardrobe, like the guys dress up like they're from 1800s Britain and the women dress up in lingerie. What is going on there? I don't know. I don't know. 

It does seem like a double standard, if I must say. Of course, we did a duel with the White Queen Emma Frost against Poison Ivy quite a few years ago. And that was a fun episode. You guys should definitely go check that out if you want to learn more about the Hellfire Club. We also did a duel between mastermind of the Hellfire Club and Psycho Pirate, where we also delved into that club's history. 

Vandal Savage has been a part of a number of teams, which I'll break down in the character's backstory. But first, to explain the methodology behind our duels, let's go to our sentient duel simulator, Alfred Jarvis, 9000. AJ9K tell our listeners how you go about determining a winner in our duel matchups. 

Yes, of course, sir. The way I determine a winner between the contestants is by running 1000 Monte Carlo simulations using the character's statistics. A Monte Carlo simulation is a probabilistic model used to determine outcomes through random sampling. In this case, I randomize the statistics along a normal distribution as a way to simulate the many variables that can occur during battle. 

The stat parameters are based on the official Marvel power grid from which the DC characters' statistics are extrapolated. Additional stat categories are included such as range, damage potential, versatility and perception in order to create a more detailed and accurate simulation. The results of the 1000 simulations provide a percentage of wins for each character. The contestant with the higher percentage is declared the victor as they have a higher probability to win any given battle. In an equitable pairing, neither character should win 100% of the matches. The comic book stories have shown that there's even a way for Batman to defeat Superman, so the confidence rate of my method falls in line with the precedents that have been established in the source material. My mathematical simulations are without subjectivity or bias. Feats are not the sole consideration, nor are fan votes tabulated for determination of the winner. 

Thanks, AJ9K. Before we run the simulations, though, we'd like to break down each of the character's histories and abilities before improvising a scenario on how we imagined one of the 1000 simulations would play out beat for beat. And it's my turn to go first with the DC characters backstory, so let me tell you all about Vandal Savage. 

Now, Vandar Og was born roughly 50,000 years ago as the chief of the Crow Magnan Blood Tribe. As a young hunter, he witnessed a glowing meteor crash to Earth. Exposure to its radiation, later understood to contain microscopic tech-tites, dramatically increased his intelligence, halted his aging and made him effectively immortal. A rival caveman of the Bear Tribe claimed a fragment of the same meteor as an amulet and became the immortal man, destined to reincarnate endlessly and oppose Vandar throughout history. Over the centuries that followed, Vandar adopted many names and roles. At times, he acted openly as Warlord, King, Conqueror or Pharaoh. At others, he served as advisor, strategist or manipulator behind the scenes. He claimed numerous historical identities, though many were exaggerations meant to magnify his legend. His immortality allowed him to gather knowledge of warfare, politics, culture and science across multiple eras. 

And his mastery of strategy made him a recurring architect of upheaval. In ancient Atlantis, Vandal founded a secret society known as the Children of Light, whose influence helped destabilize Atlantean power. Before the continent sank, his followers spread across the world as the Illuminati. In Egypt, he ruled as Coffrey, until Nubu the Wise forged a mystical symbol of power to overthrow him, beginning a conflict that echoed through their incarnations. 

In Europe, Asia and the Mediterranean world, Vandal served or opposed leaders ranging from Napoleon and Bismarck to Genghis Khan. Across the ages, he repeatedly clashed with reincarnating enemies, such as Prince Khufu and Shaira, later known as Hockman and Hock Girl, and with the immortal man and resurrection man, whose tectite-linked powers mirrored his own. His immortality was imperfect, however. The tectite's healed wounds but also preserved an early intestinal cancer, causing periodic agony throughout his life. 

To survive catastrophic injuries or organ failure, he periodically relied on descendants whose genetic material could restore failing tissues. As civilization progressed, Vandal Savage continued shaping events from the shadows. In the 20th century, he confronted the Justice Society of America, beginning a recurring rivalry with the Green Lantern Alan Scott, who you can learn more about in our Green Lantern vs. Iceman duel episode. 

When the Justice Society retired in the 1950s under pressure from the House Un-American Activities Committee, Savage helped engineer political pressure to force their withdrawal, clearing the stage for later plans. As superheroes re-emerged, Vandal expanded his operations with scientific research, funding projects through shell organizations and adopting new identities. Under aliases such as Burt Villars, he confronted Wally West, the Flash, who exposed Savage's involvement in experiments and illegal dealings. Savage pioneered the Super Speed Drug Velocity 9, distributing it through criminal networks with the intent of creating an army of addicted supercriminals. The drug caused rapid aging and strokes, and the Flash dismantled the operation. 

You can learn more about Wally West in our Flash vs. Speedball episode. Savage's immortality occasionally faltered, forcing him to pursue methods to replenish it. Savage financed a clandestine research group known only as the Lab, directing its scientists to replicate the tectites that sustained his immortality. Their experiments on unwilling subjects, including an amnesiac man named Mitch Shelley, led to the creation of the Resurrection Man. When a time warped tectite creature threatened reality, Savage temporarily allied with Immortal Man and Resurrection Man. 

Immortal Man sacrificed himself to destroy the creature, ending the ancient rivalry. The Resurrection Man inherited the role of Savage's primary adversary. Seeking further influence, Savage manipulated conflicts involving the new Titans. He founded the villain team Tartarus using Gohman's powers to select members, then targeted Adeline Wilson for her blood in a new immortality serum. The Titans stopped him after a violent confrontation that left several villains dead or defecting. 

You can learn more about the Titans in their team duel against the X-Men. Savage's descent toward more extreme measures continued. He became the leader of a doomsday cult and obtained an alien summoner device capable of dragging an asteroid named Thanatos toward Earth. Savage intended to engineer a mass extinction and remake civilization from the ruins, though the Flash reversed the summoner's pull, sending the asteroid away. Savage deliberately threw himself onto the beam, believing a second meteor exposure would elevate his power, and he was hurled into space on the redirected rock. 

He survived the journey and in time returned to Earth. His next major conflict placed him at odds with the Justice Society again. Savage formed the Fourth Reich, a group of neo-Nazi metahumans tasked with exterminating the descendants of Golden Age heroes. They murdered several families before being defeated. Savage was struck down by a fire truck in the final battle but later escaped. Savage was eventually captured and sent to the Salvation Planet alongside other villains. 

He established a temporary domain by exploiting female villains, but the group rebelled and he fled during an attack from apocalyptic forces. Savage resurfaced during the final crisis as a high ranking member of the Society of Supervillains. The religion of crime stabbed him with the spirit of destiny, resurrecting him as Cain, the biblical first murderer. As Cain, Savage overpowered the Spectre and separated him from his host before being stopped by the question. The Spectre branded Savage with the mark of Cain, condemning him to wander the Earth, reviled, and unable to hide the mark. Savage later manipulated Franny Montoya into taking the mark from him. 

You can learn more about the Spectre and the question from their respective duels against Galactus and Echo. Eventually, Savage became involved with the surviving faction of his prehistoric tribe, the Insiders, who had also been altered by the meteor. He formed a temporary alliance with Russell Gull and the Outsiders to prevent the insiders from claiming more meteorite fragments. When Savage's immortality again began to fail, he attempted to prolong his life by stealing Alan Scott's DNA using a mutated Sandman clone, but the scheme collapsed. Savage ritualistically consumed a clone of himself to temporarily restore his vitality. In post-Flashpoint continuity, Vandal Savage was born 47,000 years ago into the Wolf Tribe. He murdered his father after a meteor landed nearby, which bathed him in transformative radiation, granting immortality, superhuman strength, and heightened senses. 

Members of the Bear Tribe exposed to the same meteor became fellow immortals forming the Council of Immortals. He waged war against the Han dynasty, served as Sir Savage in the Crusades, and clashed with Pandora in Antioch. Savage joined the Demon Knights after the fall of Camelot, fighting alongside Etrican, Madame Zanadu, and the Shining Knights. During failed attempts to monitor returning meteors predicted by Shang-Hen, he murdered both John and Copernicus. His activities continued into the 19th century when he carried a plague into Gotham City using his immune body as a vessel before being stopped by Jonah Hex. Who you've learned more about in our last episode, Jonah Hex vs. Deathwarp. He supported Nazi operations during World War II and attempted to reach a returning meteor via rocket flights. When the pilot rejected his plan, Savage killed him after the craft crashed. 

In the modern era, Savage periodically operated as a serial killer and was imprisoned until freed by the Seeker Society during the crime syndicate's invasion. He became involved in multiversal studies with Lionel Luther and manipulated his immortal children during an attempt to intercept another meteor. During this period, he infected Superman with radiation that hindered his solar absorption. Savage captured multiple Justice League members and stole the Fortress of Solitude while preparing for the Comet's return. When the Comet passed near Earth, Savage absorbed enhanced power but reverted after Superman dispersed the Comet's energies. Later Savage opposed Lex Luthor's attempt to wield the Totality and of the few forces capable of ending his immortality and was killed by a shard of its power. Following the restoration of the multiverse after the final crisis with the darkest night, Savage was among the many beings returned to life. He later joined a new organization called the Totality, a multiversal council created to monitor rising cosmic threats. 

And that's his history. Powers-wise, Vandal Savage is an immortal enhanced by tectites or meteor-borne energies that halt aging, regenerate tissue, and grant superhuman strength, resilience, stamina, and high-end senses. He could recover from lethal wounds, survive extreme conditions, and endure diseases that would kill others. His intelligence has developed over millennia, making him a master strategist, tactician, linguist, and combatant. His skill spans ancient and modern weaponry, hand-to-hand combat, battlefield command, and scientific and political manipulation. 

His healing has limits, severe organ damage may require graphs from descendants or clones, and that's Vandal Savage. But how strong is he though? He's Crow Magnum strong. You could consider him as strong as a silverback. 

Okay. And how quick is his healing factor? Is it like Wolverine deadpool speed or slower than that? I wouldn't say it's quite as fast as Wolverine's, which has gotten progressively faster in the comic books I might add over the years. Let's say it's inconsistent in the comics. Like I've seen him literally take an arrow to the head and still keep fighting. 

Okay, interesting. You know, his origin reminded me a lot of Ulysses Bloodstones from the comic books, who is the father of Elsa Bloodstone. I don't know if you remember his origin from her duel against Frankenstein. 

Vaguely. I'm not sure who came first, but I'm just gonna say that Vandal Savage is a huge rip-off of Ulysses Bloodstone, and no, I'm not gonna fact check that. Vandal Savage has been around since 1943, so I feel like that's a bold claim. I stand by what I said. Would you stand by if you found out that Ulysses Bloodstone first appeared in 1975? Yes, I would. 

Okay. But enough about Bloodstone, let me go ahead and tell you all about the X-Men villain Sebastian Shaw. Sebastian Shaw was born in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, where his father Jacob had settled after fleeing the United Kingdom. Jacob had spent years working in secret for the geneticist Mr. Sinister, whose experiments on mutants convinced Jacob that Sinister posed a danger to his family. 

You can learn more about Sinister in his duel against the Ultra Humanite. Wanting a different life for his son, Jacob escaped Sinister's control and tried to raise Sebastian in America far from that influence. Despite this effort, the two lived in deep poverty, and Sebastian worked in a steel mill from a young age to help support himself and his father. Despite their circumstances, Jacob pushed him toward education, and Sebastian excelled academically. After Jacob's death, Sebastian received a full scholarship to the Stevens Institute of Technology in New Jersey, but celebrating this achievement led to disaster. 

A group of wealthy young men angry that someone from a poor background could attend such a prestigious school, cornered and beat him. The trauma of this attack triggered his mutant power for the first time. Sebastian discovered he could absorb the force of physical impacts and convert the energy into strength, allowing him to overpower his attackers. At college, Sebastian devoted himself to engineering and business. After graduating, he quickly became known as a genius with a remarkable talent for understanding economics and technology. He founded Shaw Industries, a company that grew rapidly through defense contracts and munitions development. 

By 30, he was a millionaire, and by 40, he was a billionaire. During these years, Shaw also became romantically involved with a woman named Lorde Chantel, a mutant teleporter, and he began raising a boy named Shinobi as his own. Shaw's wealth drew the attention of the Hellfire Club, which was an elite society of influential business and political leaders. 

Its public reputation was one of luxury and exclusivity, but many members belonged to a secret leadership group called the Inner Circle. Shaw accepted the invitation to join and soon became the Black Bishop. His partner Lords distrusted the club, fearing it would corrupt him, but Shaw saw opportunity and ignored her concerns. 

Within the Inner Circle, Shaw worked alongside Emma Frost, Harry Leland, Donald Pierce, and the White King Ned Buckman. The White King had the Hellfire Club financially support the Sentinel program under the cover of scientific research. In reality, the Sentinels were anti-mutant robots designed to hunt and kill mutants. 

You can learn more about them in our Amazo vs Bastion dual episode. When Shaw discovered the truth about Sentinels, he confronted Buckman, but the White King betrayed him and sent Sentinels to eliminate Shaw and his allies. During the attack, Lords died protecting Shaw. Grief stricken and furious, Shaw and Emma Frost turned on the Inner Circle. Using Emma's telepathy, they forced Buckman to kill the other members and then himself. Shaw then declared himself the new Black King of the Hellfire Club and Emma Frost became the new White Queen. 

You can learn more about Emma Frost in her dual against Poison Ivy. As Black King, Shaw worked to expand the club's influence over world politics and corporations. He used Shaw Industries to build and control Sentinel technology, believing it was safer for mutants if he held power over the machines, rather than leaving them in the hands of anti-mutant forces. 

Shaw also courted powerful figures like Senator Robert Kelly and Henry Peter Geirich, pretending to be a human supremacist to allay suspicion while advancing his own plans. He also attempted to recruit Namor of Atlantis as the Hellfire Club's White King. Namor refused and Shaw's retaliatory use of Sentinels against Atlantis created a lasting enemy. 

You can learn more about Namor in her Aquaman vs Submariner dual episode. Shaw's ambitions soon collided with the X-Men. Through one of the club's assassins, he planted surveillance devices in Xavier's mansion, allowing the Hellfire Club to track new mutants as soon as Cerebro detected them. The club attempted to recruit or capture new mutants such as Kitty Pryde and Dazzler, leading to direct confrontation between the Inner Circle and the X-Men. During this conflict, Mastermind manipulated Jean Grey, not realizing she was actually the Phoenix Force. 

When Phoenix broke free of his control, she fought back with devastating power, forcing Shaw and the Inner Circle to retreat. You can learn more about Professor X and Jean Grey in their respective duels against the Chief and Raven. The Hellfire Club later fought alongside the X-Men against the future Sentinel Nimrod. During the battle, Harry Leland used his gravity powers to send Shaw crashing into Nimrod at incredible speed. The attack destroyed Nimrod, but the exertion killed Leland, leaving Shaw without an ally in the Inner Circle. 

Not long after, Magneto joined the club as the new White King. He, the Black Queen Selene, and Emmafrost the White Queen voted to remove Shaw from power, citing his reckless support of the Sentinel program. Shaw attempted to rebuild his influence, but his adopted son, Shinobi, attacked him, phasing a hand into his chest to induce a heart attack and then blowing up Shaw's chalet. Although presumed dead, Shaw survived and later resurfaced allied with Holocaust, a destructive mutant from another timeline, to capture X-Force. However, the plan failed when Cable freed his team, whom we've learned more about in our Outsiders vs X-Force duel episode. Shaw next pursued the Elixir Vitae, a substance he believed could cure the legacy virus, which was a disease that was lethal to mutants, which you can learn more about in our Beast Boy vs Beast duel episode. 

Shaw later regained control of the Hellfire Club and worked to rebuild the Inner Circle by turning the New York branch into a nightclub for gathering secrets from wealthy patrons. He recruited Miss Sinister, a female clone of Mr. Sinister, and attempted to manipulate Wolverine's son, Daken. Emma Frost eventually recovered the memories of her past connection with Namor and blamed Shaw for the Sentinel strike that had destroyed Atlantis. She struck a deal with Namor. 

If she removed Shaw permanently, Namor would pledge to defend mutant kind as his own people. Emma lured Shaw into a trap, telepathically incapacitated him, and rather than killing him, secretly transported him to Utopia, which was the X-Men's island headquarters off the coast of San Francisco. There, she had him placed in the X-Brick, which was an underwater prison facility that the X-Men used to confine dangerous mutants. For a time, Shaw remained imprisoned, his whereabouts unknown to most of the mutant community. Emma eventually decided that keeping Shaw was too dangerous and had Shaw released using her telepathy to wipe his memories and leaving him unaware of his identity or any past crimes. Months later, Shaw was found in Pakistan and taken to the Avengers Academy where he was placed in a special cell that absorbed kinetic energy. Shaw escaped by repeatedly striking himself with a book to build enough power to break free. 

He eventually regained his memories and returned to the Hellfire Club. When the Tarigin Clouds released into the atmosphere by the Inhumans began killing mutants, Shaw allied with Magneto. However, his involvement with the genetic modification and mutant creating drug called Mother Vine Backfire. After taking the drug, he gained the ability to absorb ambient kinetic energy, but the unstable mutation began damaging his cells from within. 

Emma Frost covertly had his drink poisoned with a paralytic that prevented him from releasing this energy, causing the overload to kill him. Shaw was later resurrected on the mutant island of Krakowa and welcomed as part of the New Nation. You can learn more about Krakowa in its duel against Danny the Street. Shaw earned a seat on the Quiet Council as the Black King of the Hellfire Trading Company, which was responsible for the global distribution of Krakowa medicines. Determined to regain influence, he attempted to install his resurrected son, Shinobi as the Red King, but Emma Frost countered him by appointing Kitty Pryde in that role. Shaw orchestrated Kitty's murder, believing she could not be resurrected, but she returned after several attempts. When Emma Frost learned the truth by reading the memories of Kitty's pet dragon, Lockheed, she and Kate brutally punished Shaw, leaving him temporarily crippled. Shaw eventually recovered, but his power struggles with Krakowa continued until its eventual downfall. 

And that's his backstory. Powers-wise, Sebastian Shaw, the Black King, is a mutant with the ability to absorb kinetic and thermal energy, converting it into superhuman strength, speed, stamina, and healing ability. Even bladed attacks against him result in only superficial scratches because of his ability to sap the blade of all its thrusting and cutting energy. He is a formidable hand-to-hand combatant, a cunning strategist, anti-gifted engineer and economist. 

His weakness is that his absorption ability does have a limit, and if he overloads on energy, he can pass out if he does not exert it. And that's Sebastian Shaw. Okay, so both of these guys have healing factors and strength, yeah. Although Sebastian Shaw's strength has to develop, but he can absorb kinetic energy, which is something that Vandal Savage doesn't have. I don't know how Vandal Savage is gonna hurt him because punching Shaw is like punching someone in your dreams, right? 

Like you punch him as hard as you can and it's just, it's like hitting good mattress. Well, this should be a fun speculation. No wonder we haven't used this character yet. Good luck. 

In a world where fantasies collide and heroes clash, one podcast network rises above the rest. Prepare yourself for the ultimate showdowns in comic books, video games, movies, and anime. The Dynamite Podcast Network presents Console Combat, where video game legends brawl every Monday, Dynamic Duel, where comic book titans smash every Tuesday, Max Destruction, where TV and action heroes battle every Wednesday, and Sendro World, where anime champions clash every Thursday. Join us as we speculate on the matches and armed with the power of mathematical simulations, discover who will emerge victorious. Visit dynamicpodcast.com where we settle the debate and settle the score. 

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Shop now before heroes and villains alike sell out at OldGlory.com. Now that we've got their histories and abilities out of the way, let's speculate on how one of the 1,000 simulated matches will go. The winner is determined by simulations, not the speculation, but it's fun to imagine how this fight could play out. AJ9K, what are the rules of our speculation? 

Well, I should say there are no rules other than the characters have no prior knowledge of the other going into the fight. All they are aware of starting out is that the other character is a threat that needs to be eliminated. For the speculation, the contestants will begin approximately 50 meters apart in a nondescript environment that will have no bearing on the match itself, as no environmental statistics are considered in my simulations. The contestants must earn victory on their own merit. 

Alright then let's get into it. Vandal Savage and Sebastian Shaw meet on the battlefield. Who goes first? I'm going to say that Sebastian Shaw goes first by kneeling down and punching the ground with his fists as hard as he can in order to build up his kinetic energy reserve. And since he also spends most of his mornings punching walls or he'll have his security team beat the shit out of him, we'll see he starts this match off at around 10% peak power. Okay. So right off the bat he's at least as strong as, you know, a gorilla who can lift like, what, like two tons? Well, I'm going to say that Savage, you know, he sees Shaw punching the ground and just from his historical experience, deduces Shaw's ability of kinetic energy storage. Alright. 

Okay. And that's when he's going to twist a jewel knob that's atop his walking cane. And that's going to cause it to emit a blinding flash, which is going to blind Shaw. And when he's done blinking away the spots from his eyes, Savage is already behind him. And Savage is going to taser Shaw in the back of the neck with the tip of his cane, just overloading him with millions of volts of electrical energy. 

Millions of volts? Yeah, like way too much for him to absorb. No, no, he's just going to get a little bit of a boost from the electricity, but he also absorbs thermal energy in addition to kinetic. So while he's getting electrocuted, he's slowly going to get stronger and stronger. And he's going to stop convulsing and just start laughing. He's going to grab Vendil Savage's little stick in his hand. And then he's just going to break it in half and proceed to give Savage a severe caning, just beating him like he owes him money. 

Okay. But as soon as Shaw grabs Vandal's cane, Vandal's gonna unsheathe a saber from the handle. So Shaw's just broken a sheath essentially. And while he attempts to beat Vandal with that, Vandal is gonna calmly deflect all of his attacks, slicing the cane halves up in Shaw's hands, and he'll finish off by slitting his throat as well. Well, I mean, like I said, the blade would only leave a superficial scratch across Shaw's neck because his skin would sap the saber of all of its kinetic energy as it made contact. So again, all you're doing is powering up Shaw. 

At this point, he's probably like at 25% power because of the electrical attack. So he's just gonna stomp toward Vandal Savage, you know, keeping his opponent on the back foot. He's gonna straight up smack the sword out of his hand and then grab Vandal Savage, lift him up in the air and just power bomb him onto the ground right onto his head, which causes Vandal Savage's neck to break. I mean, Savage, his bones are pretty thick and durable. Like, I don't think it would paralyze him or anything, plus he'd heal right away. And to give him the chance to do so as he's on the ground, he's going to pull out a pen that he kept in his pocket. 

And that's a sonic emitter. So while Shaw is covering his ears with his hands like, oh no, my freaking ears. That's when Savage is gonna straight up shove that pen up Shaw's nose and unleash the acid ink within it, just dissolving Shaw's head from the inside. What the fuck? How many gadgets does Vandal Savage have? He's like fucking James Bond or something? What's going on here? 

Yeah, he's like the ultimate James Bond in a way. Stop making shit up. Dude, I'm not. He literally invents all kinds of stuff. He invented the knife. He invented fire. Like he's always prepared with some kind of gadget. 

Whatever. Okay, the sonic pen would hurt Shaw's ears, yes, but the sonic vibrations from it once again would power him up. So when Vandal Savage goes to stab him up the nose with the pen, Shaw just grabs him by the wrist and straight up rips his whole damn arm off. 

Okay, I mean, that's fine. Savage has probably lost that same arm several times throughout his life. He'll just regrow another one later. But I will say that some of that acid from the pen did manage to land on Shaw's chest and it's slowly eating its way through it. So Shaw's freaking out. And while he is, Savage is going to remove his belt and Garrett, Shaw from behind with it, strangling him to death with his one arm. For some reason, when you said Savage removed his belt, I thought you were going to say he's going to give Shaw an ass whooping. 

That would have been awkward. Anyway, Shaw can't absorb acid. It would hurt him and he can also be suffocated. But like I'm saying, he's so strong by this point as Savage is trying to strangle him, Shaw would just grab the belt around his neck and rip it in half. And then he takes that belt and does give Vandal Savage an ass whooping before straight up ripping his spine out of his body. 

Match over. But dude, how is he going to do that with the acid still eating at his chest? Like by this point, his organs are exposed. That was really strong acid. It was just a little splash that got on him of acid. 

He'll be fine. I mean, did I also mention that Savage's saber blade from his cane was laced with poison? Because it was. So that poison entered the superficial cut in his neck and has been slowly sapping away Shaw's strength this whole time. So after Shaw rips the belt, he just pukes and dies. Well, yeah, poison changes things. I'm going to say that, you know, Savage's poison barely got in Shaw's system. It didn't really affect him in enough time to prevent Vandal Savage's ass whooping and getting his spine ripped out. There you go. OK, so it was just a little poison that affected him a little bit of acid. Yeah. Come on. Shaw's just too strong. 

I don't know what to tell you. But we could go ahead and leave the match there. Either Sebastian Shaw gets poisoned early in the match by a poison laced blade and therefore succumbs to it and dies. Or the poison doesn't affect him that much because he doesn't get enough in his system and he rips Vandal Savage's spine from his body. Let's go ahead and input the character stats from the simulations and find out which of these scenarios is more likely to happen when we come back with a winner. AJ9K, hit it. 

Inputting data, running calculations, processing results, simulations complete. 

I actually really like this matchup. Like I was intrigued by it when it was pitched, but having gone through it, Vandal Savage had more going for him than I thought he would against Sebastian Shaw. Yeah, I thought this was going to be an easy win for Sebastian Shaw, considering that he's actually super powered. Well, I mean, Vandal Savage is actually super powered too, but not to the full potential that Sebastian Shaw can reach. So I was going in this fairly confident and then just statistically Vandal Savage is pretty impressive. So I'm less confident now. 

We'll say that. I think this will be a closer match than I ever wanted it to be. Well, I mean, from a stat perspective, Sebastian Shaw has the capability of being much more of a physical powerhouse than Vandal Savage. When it came to stats like speed, durability, strength and even damage, the edge went to Shaw. 

But on the other side of the spectrum, we found that Vandal Savage was a better fighter. He had slightly more range just because of the gadgets he carries. He's smarter. 

He's more perceptive since he has enhanced senses and overall just a bit more versatile. I don't think he should come into this match with any gadgets. I was never told that he would have gadgets. 

Tell that to all of the superheroes he goes up against who don't expect him to pull out gadgets. I have receipts, sir. I have receipts. 

All right, whatever. So considering all of the stats that were run, who do you think is going to come out on top? I still think it's going to be Sebastian Shaw, but I think it's going to be really close, basically a coin toss. And really, this should have been a curb stop on behalf of Sebastian Shaw, but it's going to end up being probably a coin toss. 

Although, you know what? Instagram disagrees with me. So maybe people out there know something I don't because 68% of our poll takers on Instagram sided with Vandal Savage over Sebastian Shaw. I think Vandal Savage just has a cooler look to him. 

Like he actually pulls off that Victorian era look, whereas Sebastian Shaw does not. What are you talking about? You don't have any clue what you're talking about. The fact that Vandal Savage won the poll does scare me, though, because I would have thought that Sebastian Shaw would have won the popularity contest, at least considering that he was played by Kevin Bacon in one of the greatest sexman films that has been made. Well, let's find out who won the match. AJ9K, the results, please. Here you are, sir. The winner of the matchup between Vandal Savage and Sebastian Shaw is Vandal Savage, baby. 

What? He won 593 of the 1000 simulated matches or 59.3% of the time compared to Sebastian Shaw who only won 40.7%. So that wasn't even a coin toss. No, Vandal Savage won handedly, which would have been surprising to me prior to us doing the stats. And I don't even think I mentioned we accounted for Sebastian Shaw being at his strongest in these stats. 

The power level he's not always at. I was supposed to win this entire month of November. And were you? Yeah, I was supposed to. Well, it looks like that didn't happen. 

Did it? Universe owes me for not coming through on this for sure. Universe doesn't owe you shit. You know what? I'm thankful for this Thanksgiving. 

Having an awesome twin brother. What? Yeah. No. I'm thankful for this win in particular because DC has been on a losing streak and I was getting scared. 

Well, I'll be thankful that at least you were scared at some point this month. Sure, I'll let you have it. But that does it for this duel. AJ9K help close this out. 

In our next episode, we are doing a team duel between the powerhouse teams of the new gods against the Eternals. Look forward to that next week. That does it for this episode. We want to give a big thanks to our executive producers, John Staroski, Zachary Hepburn, Destin Belcom, Nathaniel Wagner, Levi Yatyn, Austin Wazalowski, A.J. Dunkerly, Nick Obonto, Scott Camacho, Gil Camacho, Adam Spees, Dean Moleski, Devin Davis, Joseph Kirsting and Paul Graves for helping make this podcast possible. We'll talk to you guys next week. Up, up and away. True believers. 

The Amalgam version of these two characters would be named Sandal Bandage and they would repair shoes as their day job.