Dorothy Spinner vs Moon Girl & Devil Dinosaur

1 00:00:00,930 --> 00:00:02,972 This is a Dynamike Network podcast. 2 00:00:24,994 --> 00:00:30,155 Welcome to the Dynamic Duel Podcast, a weekly show where we review superhero films and debate 3 00:00:30,175 --> 00:00:35,777 the superiority between Marvel and DC by comparing their characters in stat-based battle simulations. 4 00:00:36,217 --> 00:00:42,719 I'm Johnny DC. And I'm his twin brother, Marvelous Joe. And in this episode, we are doing a duel 5 00:00:42,959 --> 00:00:48,440 between the characters Dorothy Spinner from The Doom Patrol and Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur. 6 00:00:48,740 --> 00:00:54,106 This is the final duel in lead up to our big team duel next episode. where we're gonna pit 7 00:00:54,146 --> 00:00:59,527 the teams of Doom Patrol and Guardians of the Galaxy against each other. Yeah, Dorothy Spinner 8 00:00:59,687 --> 00:01:06,169 and Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur are both little girl superheroes with big monsters as backup, 9 00:01:06,349 --> 00:01:10,210 basically. It'll be a lot of fun to break down these characters. Moon Girl has a fantastic 10 00:01:10,230 --> 00:01:15,392 backstory that I was really glad to dive into, so can't wait to talk all about her and figure 11 00:01:15,472 --> 00:01:19,753 out who the heck's gonna win this matchup later on this episode. Before that, we're gonna break 12 00:01:19,773 --> 00:01:25,060 down the comic book movie news to come out in the past week. of which there isn't much due 13 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:30,165 to the ongoing strikes. There was like a 45 second Loki season 2 teaser, so we're going 14 00:01:30,225 --> 00:01:35,290 to talk about that. Yeah and this episode is actually sponsored by the Chronicle AI card 15 00:01:35,330 --> 00:01:42,077 game that Jonathan and I invented. That's right, we are sponsoring our own episode because we 16 00:01:42,097 --> 00:01:46,764 can. it's our podcast. So we're going to talk a little bit about the card game that Jonathan 17 00:01:46,784 --> 00:01:50,886 and I made. As always, we list our segment times in our episode description, so feel free to 18 00:01:50,926 --> 00:01:55,208 check out the show notes if you want to skip ahead to a particular topic. As our listeners 19 00:01:55,248 --> 00:02:00,451 may know, our duel simulator is so advanced that it's gained sentience and has named itself 20 00:02:00,511 --> 00:02:06,114 the artificial life form for running extensive duels, just a rather very intelligent simulator 21 00:02:06,374 --> 00:02:14,826 9000, or Alfred Jarvis 9000. Here's a quick message for our listeners, so listen up. Why 22 00:02:14,886 --> 00:02:19,688 hello there. Do you love listening and chatting about Marvel and DC? Then become a part of 23 00:02:19,728 --> 00:02:24,810 the dynamic dual community on Patreon where you can choose from three tiers. The dynamic 24 00:02:24,850 --> 00:02:30,232 2-0 tier lets you listen to this podcast without ads and gives you access to its Discord chat 25 00:02:30,252 --> 00:02:35,098 group where you can chat with Johnny DC and Marvelous Joe. The Fantastic Four tier gives 26 00:02:35,138 --> 00:02:39,960 you that and more with two bonus episodes each month, including bloopers and top ten shows 27 00:02:39,980 --> 00:02:44,783 where Johnny and Joe count down your favourite Marvel and DC subjects. The X-Force tier makes 28 00:02:44,803 --> 00:02:49,425 you an executive producer of Dynamic Duel, where every month you help the host choose what to 29 00:02:49,465 --> 00:02:54,627 review and who to fight against each other. And finally, the Dynamite Podcast Network tier 30 00:02:54,927 --> 00:02:59,970 allows aspiring podcasters to create their own battle-focused show using this Monte Carlo 31 00:03:00,010 --> 00:03:00,550 simulator. 32 00:03:03,632 --> 00:03:07,852 graphic support and consultation and get you simulation results to announce on your show. 33 00:03:08,372 --> 00:03:13,814 Pitch the twins your show via email at dynamicduelpodcast at gmail.com or by reaching out to them on 34 00:03:13,894 --> 00:03:21,255 social media. Check it out at patreon.com slash dynamic duel. Pip pip cheerio. Thanks, J9K, 35 00:03:21,495 --> 00:03:25,856 and thanks to everyone who supports the podcast. Be sure to tune into the Max Destruction podcast 36 00:03:25,876 --> 00:03:30,957 this Wednesday, where Ken and Dustin find out who'd win in a fight between John Matrix from 37 00:03:31,017 --> 00:03:33,511 the Commando Movie. versus Robocop. 38 00:03:56,566 --> 00:04:01,349 A No Prize is an award Marvel used to give out to fans. Our version, the Dynamic Dual No Prize, 39 00:04:01,389 --> 00:04:05,911 is a digital award we post on Instagram and in our email newsletter for the person that 40 00:04:05,951 --> 00:04:11,335 we feel gave the best answer to our question of the week. We got a lot of great answers 41 00:04:11,375 --> 00:04:16,738 this time. I think a total of eight people called in. Unfortunately, we can only pick four answers 42 00:04:16,938 --> 00:04:22,442 and there were only really four answers to give because the question last week was... What 43 00:04:22,482 --> 00:04:27,645 was your favorite Marvel or DC cartoon from the 90s and why? I think the answers will be 44 00:04:27,705 --> 00:04:33,228 pretty obvious, but it'll be interesting to see which one comes out on top. Our first honorable 45 00:04:33,328 --> 00:04:38,070 mention goes to Dustin Balcom, who said, Hey, dynamic duelist Dustin Balcom here and I am 46 00:04:38,130 --> 00:04:45,054 jumping in right away to get my answer because I'm not going to let these DC robots come out 47 00:04:45,074 --> 00:04:51,310 and just say Batman the animated series because it is good, but my gosh grow personality. The 48 00:04:51,370 --> 00:04:57,254 real answer is the 90s Spider-Man cartoon because it was just perfection. And that's all I got 49 00:04:57,274 --> 00:05:02,738 to say. That's right, Jonathan. Anyone who thinks that Batman the Animated Series was the best 50 00:05:02,758 --> 00:05:08,362 cartoon of the 90s basically has no personality, according to Dustin. And he's right. The best 51 00:05:08,402 --> 00:05:13,646 cartoon is actually Spider-Man, which was a fantastic adaptation of the comic books. It 52 00:05:13,706 --> 00:05:17,248 introduced kids to a whole bunch of other Marvel superheroes. There were a lot of crossovers 53 00:05:17,288 --> 00:05:22,700 in that show. Killer opening theme song. and the show gave us the first example of the Spider-Verse. 54 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:30,225 I dunno, sounds kinda boring to me. What? Yeah. I mean, big whoop. You know you watched that 55 00:05:30,265 --> 00:05:36,269 shit. I did, it was good I guess. Travis Herndon and Lizzie Dyer Arnie also gave the answer 56 00:05:36,569 --> 00:05:43,194 of the 90's Spider-Man cartoon. But Colby Hentges gave this answer. Hey boys, Colby Hentges. 57 00:05:43,594 --> 00:05:47,937 I know these are usually opinion questions and there's no right or wrong answer, but this 58 00:05:47,977 --> 00:05:53,135 week is different. If you don't pick Batman, the animated series, you're wrong. It's still 59 00:05:53,175 --> 00:05:58,236 some of the best telling of some of Batman's best stories. Kevin Conroy is Batman. Mark 60 00:05:58,256 --> 00:06:03,578 Hamill is Joker. It's the best. B-Taz or bust. Now, Joseph, I've got to ask you, would you 61 00:06:03,618 --> 00:06:13,561 rather be boring or wrong? Uh, I'd rather be wrong, I guess. That's fine. You rag about 62 00:06:13,581 --> 00:06:17,784 everything, so it makes sense. I love how passionate this week's answers are for this question. 63 00:06:17,924 --> 00:06:23,488 How the DC guys have no personality and how the Marvel guys are just wrong. But they are 64 00:06:23,508 --> 00:06:29,512 because the Batman animated series is so good with the music, with the voice work, even with 65 00:06:29,532 --> 00:06:35,217 the character adaptations. And so influential in terms of what came after it for DC. You 66 00:06:35,237 --> 00:06:40,221 mean like the Superman show, Justice League? Exactly. And even beyond that with the DC animated 67 00:06:40,261 --> 00:06:44,751 movie universe films. Yeah, the legacy of the show is pretty lasting, I'll admit that. We 68 00:06:44,771 --> 00:06:48,614 want to give a shout out to Ezra Garcia who also gave the answer of Batman the Animated 69 00:06:48,654 --> 00:06:56,079 series. Our final honorable mention goes to Scott Camacho who said, Johnny please do not 70 00:06:56,119 --> 00:07:01,463 change the color of my name. But when it comes to this category, I'm going to have to side 71 00:07:01,483 --> 00:07:05,686 with Marvel, mainly the X-Men series. 72 00:07:11,286 --> 00:07:19,453 banger of a soundtrack you cannot get any more than the X-Men. Come on! That's right! Even 73 00:07:19,553 --> 00:07:26,700 a DC fan can admit that the X-Men animated series in the 90s was the best cartoon at that time. 74 00:07:26,820 --> 00:07:32,725 Scotty mentioned the opening theme, which is still the best theme in all of cartoons. His 75 00:07:32,765 --> 00:07:38,446 brother, Gilly Macho, also gave the same answer and made great points that... The show pretty 76 00:07:38,466 --> 00:07:44,328 much defined the 90s as far as superheroes go and it was highly influential in getting the 77 00:07:44,448 --> 00:07:50,131 X-Men movie made which in turn probably helped kickstart the MCU. So you know the influence 78 00:07:50,311 --> 00:07:54,272 of the Batman animated series is one thing but I think the influence of the X-Men animated 79 00:07:54,312 --> 00:07:59,734 series was even greater and you know it's coming back on Disney Plus next year. I don't see 80 00:08:01,075 --> 00:08:05,477 Batman the animated series coming back. Well they're trying to do it with Batman Kid Crusader. 81 00:08:06,057 --> 00:08:11,023 I don't know what that is. It's Bruce Timm's new Batman cartoon. Come on, keep up. Why would 82 00:08:11,063 --> 00:08:18,226 I keep up with that? It's DC. Because DC's better. Duh. Not according to Scotty. You know, I'm 83 00:08:18,246 --> 00:08:22,668 going to have to change him to Team Red on the Discord from Team Blue. Scotty, let's strike 84 00:08:22,808 --> 00:08:28,290 one. Strike one, my friend. Thanks to everyone for sending in your answer. But the winner 85 00:08:28,330 --> 00:08:34,433 of this week's No Prize is Brandon Estegard, who said, I barely make the cut off of a 90s 86 00:08:34,473 --> 00:08:39,215 skit. I'm also going with a show that barely makes a cut and that's Batman Beyond. I don't 87 00:08:39,235 --> 00:08:44,158 think there's a wrong answer to this question, but what sets Batman above the rest is it doesn't 88 00:08:44,178 --> 00:08:49,260 have to rely on storylines from the comics and can still establish amazing episodes. It was 89 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:54,583 a fresh and creative take on Batman with the updated style from the OG animated series. 90 00:08:55,244 --> 00:09:00,346 Yes, Spider-Man, Batman the animated series, the X-Men animated series were all great, but 91 00:09:00,366 --> 00:09:04,929 when you think of Batman Beyond, it was almost like an amalgamation of everything that made 92 00:09:05,009 --> 00:09:10,549 those other shows. Phenomenal I guess you could say that because you know it had the cool animation 93 00:09:10,589 --> 00:09:15,293 style from Batman the animated series as Brandon mentioned But it also had you know the killer 94 00:09:15,333 --> 00:09:20,057 soundtrack like the Marvel cartoons did and more mature plots and adult themes and things 95 00:09:20,077 --> 00:09:24,901 like that You know yeah, absolutely That was a DC cartoon that I think even Marvel fans 96 00:09:24,921 --> 00:09:30,405 have to admit was insanely cool It was almost like the Marvel version of Batman right the 97 00:09:30,505 --> 00:09:36,470 fuck yeah, I'm just gonna put that out there Well, I'm not agreeing with that Now, for as 98 00:09:36,510 --> 00:09:44,193 good as Batman Beyond was, I think X-Men actually was the clear winner for this question. However, 99 00:09:44,253 --> 00:09:48,855 Brandon was the only person to give the answer Batman Beyond, and he got points for originality 100 00:09:48,875 --> 00:09:53,497 with this one, since we don't usually like to let people share No Prizes, you know? Right. 101 00:09:53,917 --> 00:09:58,019 Congrats, Brandon! You win this week's No Prize. If you, the listener, want a shot at winning 102 00:09:58,039 --> 00:10:02,741 your own No Prize, stay tuned to later on in this episode when we'll be asking another Question 103 00:10:02,781 --> 00:10:06,146 of the Week. And now that that's done... Onto the news! 104 00:10:11,790 --> 00:10:15,751 Alright, there's not much news this past week when it comes from Marvel and DC, but we did 105 00:10:15,811 --> 00:10:23,473 get a teaser of sorts for the upcoming Loki Season 2 on Disney+, which is strange because 106 00:10:23,493 --> 00:10:29,795 we already got a full-on trailer for the show, so it's kind of weird to get a 45 second teaser 107 00:10:30,435 --> 00:10:35,237 after the trailer. Usually that's flipped around. But we did get some pretty interesting new 108 00:10:35,257 --> 00:10:40,720 shots of what's going down. in Loki season 2 starting October 6th. Like we said with the 109 00:10:40,740 --> 00:10:47,805 trailer, this all looks phenomenal. The cinematography and the visual effects are movie level. In 110 00:10:47,845 --> 00:10:51,568 some cases, it looks even better than how the movie looks, especially when it comes to the 111 00:10:51,608 --> 00:10:56,411 set design and stuff. The teaser basically introduces the concept that Loki is being pulled through 112 00:10:56,511 --> 00:11:03,664 space and time involuntarily. He meets up with Sylvie. who appears is hiding out in like McDonald's 113 00:11:03,704 --> 00:11:10,187 in the 1970s after the events of season one where she killed He Who Remains and kickstarted 114 00:11:10,227 --> 00:11:14,490 the multiverse. She still has the really bad haircut, but Loki and Sylvie join forces here, 115 00:11:14,650 --> 00:11:19,272 going up against Victor Timely, who we get some new shots of Jonathan Majors playing the character. 116 00:11:19,793 --> 00:11:26,437 We also see Rhona Renslayer from season one, who in the comics is King of the Conquerors' 117 00:11:26,757 --> 00:11:32,933 romantic interest. She appears to be in Victor Timely's timeline, and she's holding this futuristic 118 00:11:33,013 --> 00:11:37,696 laser gun type device. Yeah, it makes me wonder whose side she's on. Like, is she gonna try 119 00:11:37,716 --> 00:11:43,119 and stop Kang, or is she gonna try and stop Loki? That's a great question. My inclination 120 00:11:43,159 --> 00:11:48,683 is that she's on Kang's side, and she's probably his only ally, especially since she was such 121 00:11:48,803 --> 00:11:54,667 a firm believer in the TVA and its mission, even after she realized that the leaders of 122 00:11:54,687 --> 00:12:01,432 the TVA were just lifeless automatons. True, yeah, true. I mean, for a teaser, it definitely 123 00:12:01,532 --> 00:12:05,294 teases. I don't know if I mentioned this in our review of the latest trailer that came 124 00:12:05,354 --> 00:12:10,858 out, but Loki was my favorite thing to come out of the post-Endgame era of the Marvel universe, 125 00:12:11,279 --> 00:12:16,042 next to Shang-Chi. So I'm really looking forward to this, really intrigued by the marketing 126 00:12:16,062 --> 00:12:20,425 that they're putting out for it, even if it's just a 45-second teaser. Yeah, I'm also super 127 00:12:20,465 --> 00:12:23,867 excited. We have less than a month before this show comes out, and perhaps we'll get another 128 00:12:23,907 --> 00:12:28,962 full-length trailer before that time, but we'll see. That does it for the news for this episode. 129 00:12:29,022 --> 00:12:34,665 Jonathan and I want to briefly remind listeners that we created a card game for all you card 130 00:12:34,705 --> 00:12:40,127 gamers and tabletop gamers out there and board gamers. Jonathan and I have a deck building 131 00:12:40,528 --> 00:12:45,690 card game that we developed over the span of 10 years or so and we've been told that it's 132 00:12:45,790 --> 00:12:51,372 really fun and we played it and we think it's really fun. So if you guys are into that kind 133 00:12:51,392 --> 00:12:59,368 of stuff at all, check it at all. visit ChronicleAIgame.com, which we will link in the show notes, and check 134 00:12:59,388 --> 00:13:03,751 out the card game. Jonathan and I put a lot of work into it and would appreciate any and 135 00:13:03,771 --> 00:13:09,434 all support you guys can give in that capacity. We do have a Marvel vs. DC version of this 136 00:13:09,474 --> 00:13:15,277 card game exclusive to patrons. So whether or not you get the Chronicle AI version of the 137 00:13:15,297 --> 00:13:21,360 game, which is robot themed, or the Marvel vs. DC version of the game, which we called Infinity 138 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:25,328 Crisis, let us know if you pick it up. and what you think about it. We'd love for you to play 139 00:13:25,388 --> 00:13:29,974 it. We think it's great, and we think you'll think the same. Speaking of card games, that 140 00:13:29,994 --> 00:13:31,676 brings us to our question of the week. 141 00:13:36,174 --> 00:13:43,617 So all the gamers out there, what is your favorite non-video game, for Marvel or DC, and why? 142 00:13:43,737 --> 00:13:48,879 You know, such as board games, card games, tabletop games, anything physical like that you've played. 143 00:13:49,359 --> 00:13:53,801 Yeah, Jonathan and I are big fans of board games and stuff like that, so largely this question 144 00:13:53,841 --> 00:13:57,522 is to help inform me, I think, about some of the things that are out there that I may not 145 00:13:57,542 --> 00:14:02,284 know about that I would love to check out. So record your answer at dynamicduel.com by clicking 146 00:14:02,324 --> 00:14:06,142 on the red microphone button in the bottom right hand corner of the screen. which will prompt 147 00:14:06,162 --> 00:14:10,586 you to leave us a voicemail. Your message could be up to 30 seconds long and don't forget to 148 00:14:10,606 --> 00:14:15,310 leave your name in case we include you on the podcast. We'll pick our favorite answer and 149 00:14:15,350 --> 00:14:20,235 award that person a Dynamic Duel No prize that we'll post to Instagram and our email newsletter. 150 00:14:20,555 --> 00:14:23,237 Be sure to answer before September 16th. 151 00:14:30,850 --> 00:14:34,634 That does it for the news portion of this episode. Now let's move on to the main event, where 152 00:14:34,694 --> 00:14:40,460 we find out who's gonna win in a match between the Doom Patrol's Dorothy Spinner against Moon 153 00:14:40,500 --> 00:14:41,881 Girl and Devil Dinosaur. 154 00:14:57,154 --> 00:15:01,418 Okay, Dorothy Spinner against Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur. Of course, you'll be familiar 155 00:15:01,438 --> 00:15:06,984 with Dorothy Spinner if you've seen any of the HBO Max Doom Patrol series, or I guess it's 156 00:15:07,004 --> 00:15:12,330 just Max now. Phenomenal series. If you haven't watched it, I definitely recommend it, especially 157 00:15:12,390 --> 00:15:17,446 season two, the season that Dorothy Spinner is featured in. Yeah, Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur 158 00:15:17,486 --> 00:15:23,468 actually have their own show too on the Disney Kids channel and on Disney Plus, which is actually 159 00:15:23,588 --> 00:15:29,689 incredible for a character that just came out in 2016. I think to go from non-existence when 160 00:15:29,789 --> 00:15:35,511 this podcast started to having a full-on show of their own is a real testament to how cool 161 00:15:35,551 --> 00:15:39,692 the characters of Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur are. I highly recommend the cartoon. It is 162 00:15:39,712 --> 00:15:46,086 for kids, but it is highly inspired visually by the Spider-Verse films. It's not... 3D animated, 163 00:15:46,146 --> 00:15:51,211 it's 2D, but there's a lot of cool stuff in there that's very comic book-y. That's cool. 164 00:15:51,251 --> 00:15:56,676 Is it Moon Girl or Devil Dinosaur or both that were created in 2016? Well, Devil Dinosaur 165 00:15:56,716 --> 00:16:03,221 dates back to the 1960s as a creation of Jack Kirby. Moon Girl was created much more recently, 166 00:16:03,381 --> 00:16:07,585 and I go into that a little bit in my history. In addition to the shows, you know, also check 167 00:16:07,605 --> 00:16:11,869 out the comics. The Doom Patrol comics are very highly recommended, especially the run by Grant 168 00:16:11,889 --> 00:16:16,300 Morrison. And I have to say, in my research for this episode, I had a whole lot of fun 169 00:16:16,420 --> 00:16:20,783 going back, reading the first two arcs for Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur. Nice, well, let's 170 00:16:20,803 --> 00:16:25,887 get into it. To explain the methodology behind our duels, let's go to our sentient duel simulator, 171 00:16:26,167 --> 00:16:32,131 Alfred Jarvis 9000. AJ9K, tell our listeners how you go about determining a winner in our 172 00:16:32,171 --> 00:16:37,394 duel matchups. Yes, of course, sir. The way I determine a winner between the contestants 173 00:16:37,435 --> 00:16:43,446 is by running 1000 Monte Carlo simulations using the characters statistics. A Monte Carlo simulation 174 00:16:43,486 --> 00:16:49,207 is a probabilistic model used to determine outcomes through random sampling. In this case, I randomise 175 00:16:49,227 --> 00:16:53,669 the statistics along a normal distribution as a way to simulate the many variables that can 176 00:16:53,709 --> 00:16:58,570 occur during battle. The stat parameters are based on the official Marvel power grid from 177 00:16:58,610 --> 00:17:03,732 which the DC characters' statistics are extrapolated. Additional stat categories are included such 178 00:17:03,772 --> 00:17:09,273 as range, damage potential, versatility and perception in order to create a more detailed 179 00:17:09,313 --> 00:17:14,407 and accurate simulation. The results of the 1000 simulations provide a percentage of wins 180 00:17:14,447 --> 00:17:18,889 for each character. The contestant with the higher percentage is declared the victor, as 181 00:17:18,929 --> 00:17:24,271 they have a higher probability to win any given battle. In an equitable pairing, neither character 182 00:17:24,291 --> 00:17:28,993 should win 100% of the matches. The comic book stories have shown that there's even a way 183 00:17:29,013 --> 00:17:34,075 for Batman to defeat Superman, so the confidence rate of my method falls in line with the precedents 184 00:17:34,095 --> 00:17:39,137 that have been established in the source material. My mathematical simulations are without subjectivity 185 00:17:39,197 --> 00:17:44,525 or bias. Feats are not the sole consideration, nor are fan votes tabulated for determination 186 00:17:44,565 --> 00:17:50,769 of the winner. Thanks AJ9K! Before we run the simulations though, we like to break down each 187 00:17:50,809 --> 00:17:55,892 character's histories and abilities before improvising a scenario on how we imagine one of the 1000 188 00:17:56,233 --> 00:18:01,556 simulations would play out B for B. And I believe it's my turn to go first with the DC character's 189 00:18:01,576 --> 00:18:06,920 backstory, so let me tell you all about Dorothy Spinner. Her backstory is a little bit of a 190 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:13,312 downer, but here it is. Dorothy Spinner was born with an ape-like facial disfiguration 191 00:18:13,712 --> 00:18:19,195 and hairy limbs, resulting in her birth mother giving her up for adoption while Dorothy was 192 00:18:19,235 --> 00:18:25,538 still an infant. Adopted by the Spinner family, Dorothy was raised as an only child on a farm 193 00:18:25,638 --> 00:18:31,281 in rural Kansas. With many in the community repulsed by Dorothy's appearance and due to 194 00:18:31,341 --> 00:18:36,844 excessive bullying from other children, the Spinners isolated Dorothy on their farm, which 195 00:18:36,944 --> 00:18:42,895 occupied much of the Spinner's As a result of her loneliness and isolation, Dorothy developed 196 00:18:42,975 --> 00:18:48,856 imaginary friends, which she was unknowingly able to bring to life due to her psychic mind. 197 00:18:49,196 --> 00:18:54,418 Her friends taught her to read and write and told her stories, such as The Wizard of Oz, 198 00:18:54,618 --> 00:19:00,540 which Dorothy enjoyed. One day, while picking flowers outside, Dorothy was accosted by a 199 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:02,120 young boy named Bernard 200 00:19:06,262 --> 00:19:11,545 When Dorothy made her way back to her barn to find that Bernard had hung her cat, she wished 201 00:19:11,585 --> 00:19:16,749 that Bernard was dead. It was at this point that the Candlemaker emerged from her mind, 202 00:19:17,129 --> 00:19:23,353 a being capable of granting wishes. After making the wish to the Candlemaker, Bernard was found 203 00:19:23,393 --> 00:19:28,797 in a field the next morning by his friends, crucified and disemboweled. At the funeral, 204 00:19:29,157 --> 00:19:34,000 Dorothy vowed to never make another wish from the Candlemaker again and buried him deep in 205 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:39,749 her mind. At age 11, Dorothy began being frightened by the stories that her imaginary friends were 206 00:19:39,789 --> 00:19:45,193 telling her. Old, sinister fairy tales from the Brothers Grimm and Hans Christian Andersen. 207 00:19:45,573 --> 00:19:51,258 When three imaginary family members tried to get Dorothy to wear red shoes, they reminded 208 00:19:51,358 --> 00:19:55,922 Dorothy of a fairy tale about a girl who couldn't stop dancing until her legs were chopped off. 209 00:19:56,302 --> 00:20:00,786 Dorothy told them that she had something to show them behind the barn, at which point Dorothy 210 00:20:00,806 --> 00:20:06,462 shot and killed them with an imaginary gun. A few years later, A battle between a team 211 00:20:06,523 --> 00:20:12,447 of superhero outcasts known as the Doom Patrol and the Lord of Chaos named Pytheia spilled 212 00:20:12,527 --> 00:20:18,392 onto the Spinner farm. Home alone, Dorothy got swept up into the battle and helped the superhero 213 00:20:18,432 --> 00:20:24,057 team defeat Pytheia when the others seemingly died in the pandemonium. Dorothy was made an 214 00:20:24,137 --> 00:20:30,062 honorary member of the Doom Patrol and was shocked when they called her their friend. After realizing 215 00:20:30,082 --> 00:20:35,506 that their daughter had psychic powers, the Spinners called Dr. Niles Calder. aka the Chief, 216 00:20:35,866 --> 00:20:40,627 who you can learn more about in our Chief vs. Professor X duel episode. The Chief agreed 217 00:20:40,687 --> 00:20:45,189 to help care for Dorothy and brought her to the Doom Patrol's new headquarters, the Secret 218 00:20:45,249 --> 00:20:50,730 Sanctuary in Happy Harbor, Rhode Island, a former base of the Justice League which contained 219 00:20:50,750 --> 00:20:57,332 a vault of souvenirs from past Justice League battles. One of those souvenirs was the Materiopticon, 220 00:20:57,712 --> 00:21:03,502 formerly wielded by the villain Dr. Destiny and Dream of the Endless before him. the latter 221 00:21:03,542 --> 00:21:09,223 of whom you can learn more about in our Sandman vs. Mephisto duel episode. Due to the Materiopticon's 222 00:21:09,243 --> 00:21:15,345 ability to turn dreams into reality, Dorothy's imaginary family, Damal, Darling Come Home, 223 00:21:15,405 --> 00:21:20,566 and Flying Robert, came back to life and attacked Dorothy for killing them, still trying to get 224 00:21:20,606 --> 00:21:26,528 her to wear the red shoes. Realizing the red shoes symbolized Dorothy's fear of menstruation, 225 00:21:26,968 --> 00:21:27,708 the Doom Patrol's 226 00:21:32,430 --> 00:21:37,073 empowering the Materiopticon, which robbed the imaginary beings of much of their strength. 227 00:21:37,353 --> 00:21:42,997 Before they vanished, Dorothy accepted the red shoes and her own womanhood, realizing the 228 00:21:43,037 --> 00:21:48,461 shoes were ruby slippers after all and that she was at home with the Doom Patrol. When 229 00:21:48,481 --> 00:21:52,984 the team relocated their headquarters onto Danny the Street, who you can learn more about in 230 00:21:53,004 --> 00:21:59,408 our Danny the Street vs. Kerkoa episode, Dorothy and new Doom Patrol member Flexmantello were 231 00:21:59,488 --> 00:22:05,919 kidnapped by an organization- known as the Men from Nowhere, who imprisoned them in the sub-subbasement 232 00:22:05,939 --> 00:22:11,040 of the Pentagon known as the Ant Farm in order to harness their psychic power to summon an 233 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:17,042 all-powerful entity known as the Telephone Avatar. Although Flex Mantello managed to weaken the 234 00:22:17,082 --> 00:22:22,423 Telephone Avatar by flexing a muscle that turned the Pentagon into a circle, Flex and Dorothy 235 00:22:22,443 --> 00:22:26,845 would have been killed were it not for Dorothy wishing for the Candlemaker to save her and 236 00:22:26,885 --> 00:22:32,442 her friends before passing out. When she awoke, She saw the telephone avatar hanging from the 237 00:22:32,482 --> 00:22:37,985 ceiling. With the Candlemaker constantly intruding into Dorothy's thoughts afterward, asking her 238 00:22:38,025 --> 00:22:43,787 for wishes, Dorothy confessed to Joshua what the Candlemaker had done before she collapsed 239 00:22:43,847 --> 00:22:49,029 from mental exhaustion. When Joshua went to the Chief for help, the Chief shot and killed 240 00:22:49,109 --> 00:22:55,392 Joshua for interrupting him. When Dorothy came to and found Joshua dead, the Candlemaker emerged 241 00:22:55,452 --> 00:23:01,306 and asked Dorothy if she wished that Joshua were alive. When she said that she did, the 242 00:23:01,326 --> 00:23:07,088 Candlemaker resurrected Joshua, only to kill him immediately afterward, to Dorothy's horror. 243 00:23:07,548 --> 00:23:12,589 Having gained enough power from Dorothy's wishes to emerge into the world fully formed, the 244 00:23:12,609 --> 00:23:18,011 Candlemaker decapitated the Chief and destroyed Robotman's human brain before attacking the 245 00:23:18,051 --> 00:23:23,713 world's soul in New York City, causing people to go insane. After learning that the Candlemaker 246 00:23:23,753 --> 00:23:29,060 was really an ancient malevolent entity, that used Dorothy's psychic powers to emerge into 247 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:34,684 the physical plane, the Doom Patrol eventually defeated Candlemaker, with Dorothy delivering 248 00:23:34,724 --> 00:23:40,749 the killing blow by blowing out the Candlemaker's final flame. The Doom Patrol disbanded afterward, 249 00:23:41,130 --> 00:23:46,674 forcing Dorothy to enter the real world and get an apartment. Having to deal with continual 250 00:23:46,714 --> 00:23:51,958 harassment from onlookers whenever she had to leave the house, Dorothy was also bombarded 251 00:23:51,998 --> 00:23:58,246 by African spirits who kept asking her to join their world. Dorothy created an imaginary version 252 00:23:58,266 --> 00:24:02,867 of the Doom Patrol to comfort her, though she was encouraged by the scientist William Magnus, 253 00:24:03,208 --> 00:24:07,869 who you can learn more about in our Metal Men vs. Colossus duel episode, to overcome her 254 00:24:07,909 --> 00:24:12,890 fear of the real world. After being attacked by spirit-possessed mannequins at a shopping 255 00:24:12,930 --> 00:24:18,292 mall, Dorothy was saved by Robot Man, who you can learn more about in our Robot Man vs. Think 256 00:24:18,372 --> 00:24:23,713 episode. The two of them helped reform the Doom Patrol, though Dorothy found herself depressed, 257 00:24:23,733 --> 00:24:29,427 and due to her inexperience and frequent inability to contribute to the team as much as she wanted. 258 00:24:29,887 --> 00:24:35,249 After befriending a magical doll named Charlie, who she later learned was possessed by the 259 00:24:35,309 --> 00:24:41,650 spirit of a rabbi, Dorothy helped Charlie reform the Holy Grail with the power of her imagination, 260 00:24:42,091 --> 00:24:47,992 and Charlie's spirit departed, his mission completed. Alone again, Dorothy was taken on a camping 261 00:24:48,052 --> 00:24:53,974 trip by robot man and fellow Doom Patrol member named Coagula. to let her know that her adoptive 262 00:24:54,014 --> 00:24:58,977 father had died in a wheat-thresher accident and that they found her biological mother, 263 00:24:59,337 --> 00:25:04,681 who was going to meet them soon. Upon realizing that she was being asked to leave the Doom 264 00:25:04,701 --> 00:25:10,224 Patrol in order to live a normal life with her mom, Dorothy unleashed a psychic explosion 265 00:25:10,364 --> 00:25:16,727 in a fit of immense rejection that killed Quagula, destroyed Robotman, and put herself into a 266 00:25:16,788 --> 00:25:23,615 coma. After a new Doom Patrol team formed, Its version of Robotman eventually realized that 267 00:25:23,655 --> 00:25:30,658 he was an imaginary version created by Dorothy in her vegetative state. When the real, newly 268 00:25:30,698 --> 00:25:36,760 assembled Robotman realized what was going on, he visited Dorothy in the hospital and made 269 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:42,763 the traumatic decision to take her off of life support, and Dorothy soon died. And she remains 270 00:25:42,803 --> 00:25:48,605 dead in post-Flashpoint continuity, though Robotman keeps a photo of the two of them and visits 271 00:25:48,625 --> 00:25:55,589 her grave every week. Powers-wise, Dorothy is a powerful yet somewhat unstable psychic, capable 272 00:25:55,629 --> 00:26:02,052 of bringing her imaginary friends to life, sometimes unwillingly. As a young girl, many of her imaginary 273 00:26:02,092 --> 00:26:07,996 friends manifest as symbols of her emotions, often fear or as character interpretations 274 00:26:08,016 --> 00:26:14,580 from stories she's read or heard, and occasionally as recreations of people she knows. This includes 275 00:26:14,620 --> 00:26:20,195 but is not limited to... Pretty Miss Dot? who has lipsticks for fingers that can shoot fire, 276 00:26:20,696 --> 00:26:27,381 paddle the sky, a swirling mass of hands holding paddles, hearts of ice, a woman made of ice 277 00:26:27,401 --> 00:26:33,286 that can freeze things, dark as the morning, a shadow creature with a giant fanged mouth, 278 00:26:33,806 --> 00:26:41,232 cowboy doll book face, a gun wielding cowboy made of dolls with a book for a face, and Spinner, 279 00:26:41,653 --> 00:26:47,417 a superhero adult version of Dorothy, who's a member of the imagined team, the Doom Force. 280 00:26:47,762 --> 00:26:53,604 and can manifest the nightmares of her opponents. That's Dorothy Spinner. That was a lot darker 281 00:26:53,664 --> 00:26:58,286 than I thought it was going to be and very much a downer. It is like the exact opposite of 282 00:26:58,346 --> 00:27:03,828 the Moongirl Devil Dinosaur backstory, which is largely pretty fun and cute and yeah, not 283 00:27:03,868 --> 00:27:08,910 at all what Dorothy Spinner's story is. Yeah, it's probably like the most depressing backstory 284 00:27:08,950 --> 00:27:14,452 of any DC character I've ever done a bio for in the span of this podcast. So let's cheer 285 00:27:14,493 --> 00:27:19,130 up everyone with Moongirl's backstory. Yeah, I'm glad I'm going second here. Here's the 286 00:27:19,150 --> 00:27:24,293 backstory for Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur. In prehistoric times, in an alternate dimension 287 00:27:24,673 --> 00:27:30,176 existed Dinosaur World, a planet where dinosaurs lived alongside the Neanderthal tribes of early 288 00:27:30,216 --> 00:27:36,358 humans. Within a region of active volcanoes called the Valley of Flame, the most aggressive 289 00:27:36,418 --> 00:27:42,701 hominid tribe called the Killer Folk dominated other less hostile tribes such as the Small 290 00:27:42,741 --> 00:27:48,278 Folk. When a group of Killer Folk came across a female Tyrannosaurus rex-like dinosaur and 291 00:27:48,338 --> 00:27:53,523 her young, they attacked and killed the mother and two of her children. They offered the third 292 00:27:53,563 --> 00:27:58,547 young dinosaur as a sacrifice to their volcano god by burning it alive with the fire from 293 00:27:58,568 --> 00:28:04,473 their torches. The beast nearly died, but was rescued by a boy from the Small Folk tribe 294 00:28:04,793 --> 00:28:10,422 who witnessed the massacre. The Neanderthal child's name was Moonboy. as he was the only 295 00:28:10,462 --> 00:28:15,025 member of his tribe who was brave enough to go out at night. He saw that the flames had 296 00:28:15,085 --> 00:28:20,629 turned the dinosaur's scales a fiery red, and the boy took care of it, naming him Devil. 297 00:28:21,089 --> 00:28:25,832 Moonboy and Devil Dinosaur formed a close bond, and together they fought and defeated the Killer 298 00:28:25,852 --> 00:28:30,455 Folk tribe, claiming the Valley of Flame for the small folk and protecting the lands from 299 00:28:30,555 --> 00:28:37,894 other dinosaurs and monsters. Meanwhile, universes away, An autistic 9-year-old girl named Lunela 300 00:28:37,954 --> 00:28:43,616 Lafayette grew up on the Lower East Side of Manhattan. Brilliant but shy and mocked for 301 00:28:43,636 --> 00:28:49,397 her awkwardness, Lunela acquired the nickname Moon Girl due to her constant daydreaming about 302 00:28:49,437 --> 00:28:55,099 strange gadgets and inventions. When the inhuman hero Black Bolt released the Terranian mists 303 00:28:55,219 --> 00:29:00,921 into Earth's atmosphere during a battle with Thanos, Lunela believed she could use her intelligence 304 00:29:00,961 --> 00:29:08,151 to help contain the gases. were afraid that pterogene exposure would transform them as 305 00:29:08,171 --> 00:29:13,133 the substance was used by the inhuman race as a catalyst to change them into their superpowered 306 00:29:13,213 --> 00:29:18,535 forms. Inhumans were descendants of a group of early mankind that were experimented on 307 00:29:18,595 --> 00:29:24,138 by the alien race, the Kree, to serve as their soldiers. Hundreds, if not thousands of people 308 00:29:24,198 --> 00:29:29,960 on Earth unknowingly had inhuman genetics and were being altered due to the pterogene clouds 309 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:36,115 now in the air. You can learn more about pterogenesis the Inhumans and their King Black Bolt in our 310 00:29:36,155 --> 00:29:42,417 Shazam vs Black Bolt dual episode. Lunela believed the solution to the Terran clouds lay in alien 311 00:29:42,457 --> 00:29:48,380 Kree science, so she built a device to help her locate any Kree technology on Earth in 312 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:53,242 order to study it. This led her underneath the Brooklyn Bridge where she found a Kree device 313 00:29:53,282 --> 00:29:59,124 called an Omni-Wave Projector that was capable of opening portals between time and space. 314 00:29:59,705 --> 00:30:06,024 Meanwhile, universes away, Moon Boy happened upon another Omni-Wave projector that had landed 315 00:30:06,084 --> 00:30:10,928 on Dinosaur World that was being worshipped by the Killer Folk tribe, who called it their 316 00:30:11,028 --> 00:30:16,552 Night Stone. The Killer Folk caught Moon Boy with the device and beat him to death, when 317 00:30:16,612 --> 00:30:22,776 suddenly both projectors activated simultaneously, opening a portal between Earth and Dinosaur 318 00:30:22,816 --> 00:30:27,939 World. A group of Killer Folk entered the portal and began terrorizing the people of present-day 319 00:30:27,959 --> 00:30:34,143 Manhattan, but they were followed by Devil Dinosaur, who sought to avenge Moonboy's death. Devil 320 00:30:34,183 --> 00:30:39,266 Dinosaur saved Lunela from the Killer Folk, who had fled their encounter, and she explained 321 00:30:39,306 --> 00:30:44,128 to the semi-intelligent beast that she needed his help to get the Omni-Wave Projector from 322 00:30:44,168 --> 00:30:49,131 the Neanderthals in order to save humanity. Before they could act, however, Devil Dinosaur 323 00:30:49,151 --> 00:30:55,234 was captured and imprisoned in a secret facility. Finding her courage, Lunela resolved to rescue 324 00:30:55,274 --> 00:31:02,666 her friend and equipped a series of homemade gadgets and a suit After hacking into a government 325 00:31:02,686 --> 00:31:07,109 database to find the dinosaur's whereabouts, she snuck away from home and broke into the 326 00:31:07,150 --> 00:31:12,633 secret facility, using her gadgets to break Devil from his high-tech cage. Together, the 327 00:31:12,653 --> 00:31:18,057 duo tracked the Killer Folk to a Manhattan rooftop where they defeated the Neanderthal group and 328 00:31:18,117 --> 00:31:23,501 recovered the Omni-Wave Projector. However, immediately after their victory, the Terran 329 00:31:23,521 --> 00:31:29,885 Cloud descended upon Lunella, causing her to undergo teragenesis and encasing her in a giant 330 00:31:30,065 --> 00:31:35,649 egg. Devil Dinosaur carried the egg containing Lunela to safety at her secret lab underneath 331 00:31:35,689 --> 00:31:40,813 her elementary school. When she hatched, Lunela could not immediately tell what the Terrigen 332 00:31:40,853 --> 00:31:46,397 had changed about her. However, later at school, she discovered that she would involuntarily 333 00:31:46,517 --> 00:31:51,060 switch minds with Devil Dinosaur, who was back at the lab, whenever she experienced strong 334 00:31:51,100 --> 00:31:56,764 emotions such as anger or hunger, and spontaneously during a full moon. Keeping her crime fighting 335 00:31:56,804 --> 00:32:01,743 a secret from her parents as much as possible, Lunella was eventually discovered by scientist 336 00:32:01,863 --> 00:32:08,425 Amadeus Cho, who administered a test developed by Bruce Banner called the Brain Omnicompetence 337 00:32:08,585 --> 00:32:13,448 Examiner. It was determined that Lunella was probably the most intelligent mind on Earth, 338 00:32:13,888 --> 00:32:19,390 scoring higher than other scientific minds such as Mr. Fantastic. The villain Dr. Doom took 339 00:32:19,430 --> 00:32:24,832 offense to this news and attacked Lunella, but with help from the superhuman community, including 340 00:32:24,892 --> 00:32:30,634 Dr. Strange, the X-Men, and Ironheart, She and Devil Dinosaur were able to defeat the Doombot 341 00:32:30,754 --> 00:32:37,056 army. At one point, the inhuman hero Ms. Marvel recruited Lunella and Devil Dinosaur to help 342 00:32:37,156 --> 00:32:41,938 in the war between the Inhumans and the X-Men, which was caused by the toxic nature of the 343 00:32:41,998 --> 00:32:47,279 Terrigan mists to mutants. Lunella used her knowledge of Kree technology to help the X-Men 344 00:32:47,299 --> 00:32:52,901 scientist Forge miniaturize a version of a machine he designed that would compress the Terrigan 345 00:32:52,941 --> 00:32:58,466 gases into a solid state and incinerate it. You can learn more about Forge in our Mr. Terrific 346 00:32:58,506 --> 00:33:04,988 vs. Forge dual episode. Later, Lunella received a distress call from space and built a spacecraft 347 00:33:05,088 --> 00:33:10,410 so she and Devil Dinosaur could answer it. During the adventure, her omni-wave projector malfunctioned 348 00:33:10,690 --> 00:33:16,752 and the pair ended up back in time on Dinosaur World, Devil's home planet. There they found 349 00:33:16,852 --> 00:33:21,533 Moonboy at the time he discovered the omni-wave projector and they were able to prevent him 350 00:33:21,673 --> 00:33:26,815 from being beaten by the Killer Folk. Knowing that Devil was back home with his true owner, 351 00:33:27,095 --> 00:33:32,377 Lunella decided that leaving him with Moonboy was the right thing to do. She said goodbye, 352 00:33:32,577 --> 00:33:37,719 and though Devil Dinosaur protested, she tearfully told him she didn't want him anymore and used 353 00:33:37,759 --> 00:33:42,881 the projector to travel back to Earth alone. Sad and isolated, Lunella ended up joining 354 00:33:42,921 --> 00:33:48,464 the Thing, Human Torch, and the robot Herbie in a new version of the Fantastic Four, as 355 00:33:48,504 --> 00:33:53,466 Mr. Fantastic and Invisible Woman were off with their children recreating the multiverse. You 356 00:33:53,486 --> 00:33:58,568 can learn more about that in our Justice Society vs. Fantastic Four dual episode. Eventually, 357 00:33:58,628 --> 00:34:03,870 Lunella used Herbie to open a dimensional portal to bring Devil Dinosaur back to Earth to help 358 00:34:03,910 --> 00:34:09,092 in a fight against the Super Skrull, and the two were reunited. Lunella admitted she was 359 00:34:09,152 --> 00:34:13,954 wrong for leaving Kim, Devil forgave her, and the two went back to fighting crime on their 360 00:34:14,074 --> 00:34:19,797 own. This included helping Doctor Strange rescue a boy kidnapped by the villain Nightmare, assisting 361 00:34:19,877 --> 00:34:25,759 Spider-Man against a Goblin foe, and solving an unsolvable riddle for Thor that was posed 362 00:34:25,819 --> 00:34:31,380 by his brother Loki. The latter adventure revealing that Devil was worthy of wielding Mjolnir and 363 00:34:31,420 --> 00:34:36,002 it transformed him into the Thunder Lizard. On a family trip to the country of Wakanda, 364 00:34:36,442 --> 00:34:41,703 Lunela's parents discovered her secret alter ego as Moon Girl. They banned her from continuing 365 00:34:41,743 --> 00:34:47,085 to fight crime with her dinosaur pet, though they later compromised as long as Lunela visited 366 00:34:47,145 --> 00:34:52,335 with a therapist once a week. At that time, she formed a support group for fellow newly 367 00:34:52,375 --> 00:34:58,077 powered adolescent inhumans called the Support Alliance Derby for Sensationally Abled Kids, 368 00:34:58,657 --> 00:35:05,700 or SADSACS for short. And that's her backstory. Powers-wise, Moon Girl has the inhuman power 369 00:35:05,740 --> 00:35:11,123 to temporarily swap her consciousness with Devil Dinosaur, her crime-fighting partner. This 370 00:35:11,163 --> 00:35:15,805 process is triggered involuntarily, caused by heightened emotional states and the Fool Moon. 371 00:35:16,205 --> 00:35:20,967 She has an exceptionally high intellect. stated to likely be the smartest person on Earth, 372 00:35:21,367 --> 00:35:26,349 and has built a vast array of homemade gadgets for her crime fighting activities. This includes, 373 00:35:26,409 --> 00:35:32,331 but is not limited to, spectrum scanning goggles, spring loaded boxing gloves, rocket powered 374 00:35:32,371 --> 00:35:38,914 roller skates, a helicopter backpack, a plunger tipped taser gun, sneeze powder grenades, a 375 00:35:38,954 --> 00:35:44,456 flashlight flash bang, and so many other toys in her utility belt. She can invent nearly 376 00:35:44,636 --> 00:35:50,034 anything she puts her gifted mind to, physically through engineering, or digitally through computer 377 00:35:50,114 --> 00:35:55,477 programming. Devil Dinosaur is a physically and mentally enhanced Tyrannosaurus Rex-like 378 00:35:55,558 --> 00:36:01,801 dinosaur via genetic mutation awakened when he was set aflame as a youngling. He has increased 379 00:36:01,841 --> 00:36:07,784 durability and strength, able to lift around 25 tons, and his scaly hide is immune to heat 380 00:36:07,924 --> 00:36:14,108 and strong enough to be bulletproof. Devil Dinosaur's fangs, claws, and his sense of smell are razor 381 00:36:14,128 --> 00:36:19,690 sharp, and he can track nearly anyone by their scent. He has human level reasoning abilities 382 00:36:19,870 --> 00:36:24,832 and can fully understand moon girl's commands. That's moon girl in devil dinosaur. Wait, so 383 00:36:25,033 --> 00:36:30,695 when devil dinosaur takes over moon girl's body, is she just like this snarling creature who's 384 00:36:30,715 --> 00:36:35,677 like always hungry? Yeah, she looks quite feral actually. It's kind of funny when it happens. 385 00:36:36,957 --> 00:36:41,459 Interesting. And her friends are aware of what's going on or they aren't? No, she just gets 386 00:36:41,499 --> 00:36:46,641 further ostracized for being weird when she swaps minds with devil dinosaur during school 387 00:36:46,681 --> 00:36:52,061 time. That's funny. That's cute. What a cute character. Yeah, and she freaking lives at 388 00:36:52,081 --> 00:36:57,364 the end. Yeah, that's because Marvel is for little kids, bro. OK. All right. DC is for 389 00:36:57,384 --> 00:37:03,809 the adults. Sad adults, but adults nonetheless. I mean, what adult isn't sad? 390 00:37:12,270 --> 00:37:15,830 So now that we got the characters' histories and abilities out of the way, let's speculate 391 00:37:15,890 --> 00:37:20,812 on how one of the 1000 simulated matches will go. The winner is determined by simulations, 392 00:37:21,232 --> 00:37:25,513 not the speculation, but it's fun to imagine how the fight could play out. Alfred Jarvis 393 00:37:25,533 --> 00:37:31,215 9000, what are the rules of our speculation? Well, I should say there are no rules, other 394 00:37:31,255 --> 00:37:35,296 than the characters have no prior knowledge of the other going into the fight. All they 395 00:37:35,316 --> 00:37:39,857 are aware of starting out is that the other character is a threat that needs to be eliminated. 396 00:37:40,237 --> 00:37:45,555 For the speculation... contestants will begin approximately 50 meters apart in a nondescript 397 00:37:45,615 --> 00:37:50,397 environment that will have no bearing on the match itself as no environmental statistics 398 00:37:50,437 --> 00:37:55,759 are considered in my simulations. The contestants must earn victory on their own merit. Alright 399 00:37:55,779 --> 00:38:00,641 then let's get into it! Dorothy Spinner and Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur meet on the battlefield. 400 00:38:01,061 --> 00:38:06,664 Who goes first? Honestly this is kind of hard because I don't think either character would 401 00:38:06,684 --> 00:38:13,219 attack the other really like they'd probably commiserate and want to be but that's too bad 402 00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:18,502 because the purpose of the podcast is to see who would win in no holds barred action. So 403 00:38:18,522 --> 00:38:25,446 we're gonna make these children fight, damn it. All right, I figured that once Dorothy 404 00:38:25,546 --> 00:38:32,550 sees Devil Dinosaur, she's gonna freak out and probably summon Pretty Miss Dot, who's kind 405 00:38:32,590 --> 00:38:39,894 of her go-to when she's in danger. So this weird entity wearing a helmet with lips. and curlers 406 00:38:39,934 --> 00:38:45,778 and lipstick fingers flies toward Devil Dinosaur and begins blasting him with fire. Alright, 407 00:38:45,838 --> 00:38:51,843 well that does nothing. Devil Dinosaur is immune to fire, so all this attack is gonna do is 408 00:38:51,863 --> 00:38:56,786 just piss him off. So he's infuriated and he's gonna roar real loud and then he's just gonna 409 00:38:56,826 --> 00:39:03,030 chomp down on Pretty Mistat with his razor sharp teeth. Meanwhile, Moon Girl is gonna roller 410 00:39:03,070 --> 00:39:07,613 skate over to Dorothy and just knock her the hell out with a spring-loaded boxing glove. 411 00:39:08,054 --> 00:39:13,135 Yeah, except that now Dorothy is emotionally traumatized by having seen Pretty Miss Dot 412 00:39:13,195 --> 00:39:19,377 just die like that. So while Moon Girl was approaching Dorothy, she's going to conjure several more 413 00:39:19,477 --> 00:39:25,939 entities. And we'll go with Paddle the Sky for Moon Girl and Heart of Ice for Devil Dinosaur, 414 00:39:25,999 --> 00:39:30,920 since Fire didn't do anything to him. So not only does Moon Girl's boxing glove get knocked 415 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:36,842 out of the way, she also gets paddled numerous times by Paddle the Sky. And Devil Dinosaur 416 00:39:36,862 --> 00:39:43,003 is now encased in ice. Remind, what do Paddle of the Sky and Heart of Ice look like? Paddle 417 00:39:43,023 --> 00:39:48,625 of the Sky is literally a spinning vortex of hands holding wooden paddles. And Heart of 418 00:39:48,705 --> 00:39:55,427 Ice is just a woman made of ice. Okay. Uh, not gonna lie, I don't think Moon Girl would be 419 00:39:55,487 --> 00:40:02,289 well equipped for all this weirdness. But she's gonna evade the paddles by activating her spring-loaded 420 00:40:02,329 --> 00:40:07,746 roller skates to launch herself into the air. And then she's going to switch on her helicopter 421 00:40:07,786 --> 00:40:13,528 backpack. So she's flying through the air. And as this paddle creature is chasing her, Moon 422 00:40:13,568 --> 00:40:19,169 Girl is going to pilot over toward Devil Dinosaur. And then she's going to quickly zip out of 423 00:40:19,209 --> 00:40:26,251 the way so that paddle guy crashes into Devil Dinosaur, who's in the ice. And basically, 424 00:40:26,311 --> 00:40:33,073 the paddles are going to break Devil Dinosaur out of his ice casing. So now that Devil Dinosaur 425 00:40:33,093 --> 00:40:38,923 is free. He's just gonna tackle paddle the sky out of the sky and just eviscerate it turning 426 00:40:38,963 --> 00:40:45,545 those paddles into Splinters I hope you choke on them And while that's happening moon girl 427 00:40:45,565 --> 00:40:52,427 is gonna whip out a hairdryer That she outfitted as a flamethrower and she's just gonna melt 428 00:40:52,507 --> 00:40:59,629 the ice lady to a puddle Dude keep killing Dorothy's imaginary friends. See what happens. She's 429 00:40:59,669 --> 00:41:06,610 got some weird ass friends, you know Even you've got insoles for her. Wow, wow, she can't catch 430 00:41:06,630 --> 00:41:12,092 a break, can she? Dude, these friends are objectively weird. I don't think anybody would deny them. 431 00:41:12,172 --> 00:41:18,834 Literally one of them is made out of paddles. Come on. And while Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur 432 00:41:18,854 --> 00:41:24,355 are taking care of them, Dorothy's gonna be like, oh no, my friends. And that is when Moon 433 00:41:24,395 --> 00:41:29,677 Girl, she's gonna pull out a can of soda that she shakes and then hurls over to Dorothy like 434 00:41:29,717 --> 00:41:35,828 a grenade and the can. is going to explode and just drench Dorothy in this sticky adhesive 435 00:41:36,229 --> 00:41:41,212 that Moon Girl invented. Okay, the can, it's going to explode way before it reaches Dorothy 436 00:41:41,232 --> 00:41:46,876 because Cowboy doll Bookface is going to shoot it right out of the sky when it's right over 437 00:41:46,936 --> 00:41:53,381 Devil Dinosaur just drenching him in the adhesive instead. So Devil is stuck to the ground and 438 00:41:53,461 --> 00:41:58,024 Cowboy is just going to keep shooting at Moon Girl. All right, well, Moon Girl is going to 439 00:41:58,164 --> 00:42:05,809 dive behind Devil Dinosaur. and use him as cover since she knows that he's bulletproof. And 440 00:42:05,849 --> 00:42:10,511 then to get him free of the adhesive, she's gonna pour a soda can of anti-adhesive on him 441 00:42:11,152 --> 00:42:17,816 and then hop on Devil's back as he gets up and just straight up charges Cowboy Dollface and 442 00:42:18,036 --> 00:42:23,619 whips his tail right through him, book face. Whatever. But his tail whip is gonna cause 443 00:42:23,939 --> 00:42:29,627 the Cowboy to explode into a thousand doll parts. So he's gone. And without missing a beat, like 444 00:42:29,827 --> 00:42:35,052 after that tailwhip, Moon Girl is going to spring off of Devil Dinosaur's back and she's going 445 00:42:35,072 --> 00:42:40,516 to shoot a taser plunger at Dorothy that sticks to Dorothy's head and it's going to send like 446 00:42:40,556 --> 00:42:46,061 10,000 volts of electricity through her brain. Just shutting it down. Well, OK, Dorothy's 447 00:42:46,281 --> 00:42:51,486 knocked out, but she doesn't need to be conscious for her imaginary friends to manifest or protect 448 00:42:51,526 --> 00:42:59,548 her. You know, so as Moon Girl is about to land. She lands on Honey Pie, which is a beehive 449 00:42:59,568 --> 00:43:05,533 with tree branches for limbs and a honeypot for a head. So Honey Pie has Moon Girl in this 450 00:43:05,793 --> 00:43:10,957 bear hug, essentially, and Moon Girl's being squeezed and stung as she's pressed up against 451 00:43:10,997 --> 00:43:17,762 this pissed off beehive. And meanwhile, Spinner, the adult version of Dorothy, is going to appear 452 00:43:18,162 --> 00:43:25,203 and manifest Devil Dinosaur's greatest fear, which is... I don't know, an army of the killer 453 00:43:25,243 --> 00:43:31,106 folk tribesmen who are all gonna rush and attack Devil Dinosaur. I mean, Devil Dinosaur eats 454 00:43:31,146 --> 00:43:36,909 killer folk for breakfast, alright? So he's gonna tear through them to rescue Moon Girl 455 00:43:37,049 --> 00:43:43,493 from this beehive guy. Honey pie. Yeah, yeah, he's gonna grab honey pie in his T-Rex claws 456 00:43:43,853 --> 00:43:49,176 and just freaking body slam that thing causing it to drop Moon Girl who's gonna helicopter 457 00:43:49,216 --> 00:43:54,091 away to safety. And as she's flying away... She's gonna pull out of her backpack a version 458 00:43:54,171 --> 00:44:00,256 of Professor X's Cerebro device that in the comics she once calibrated to detect magic 459 00:44:00,296 --> 00:44:06,181 beings. So she's gonna be recalibrating it again. Where is she pulling this stuff out from? Her 460 00:44:06,201 --> 00:44:12,006 backpack? Okay. Well, I mean, Spinner is still around. So she's gonna appear into Moon Girl's 461 00:44:12,046 --> 00:44:18,092 mind and manifest Moon Girl's greatest fear, which is, I don't know, what's Moon Girl's 462 00:44:18,112 --> 00:44:27,524 greatest fear? Uh, I... I don't know, an F on a test or something? Big whoop. Moon Girl wearing 463 00:44:27,664 --> 00:44:34,269 the recalibrated Cerebro is gonna deduce that Dorothy's friends are psychic manifestations. 464 00:44:35,130 --> 00:44:41,456 So she's gonna pull out a bullhorn that emanates a frequency that disrupts psychic energies. 465 00:44:42,116 --> 00:44:48,161 And Moon Girl's gonna use this invention to just dissipate Spinner. Okay, all right, so. 466 00:44:48,834 --> 00:44:56,620 Dorothy is going to wake up to see Spinner dissipate. And all of a sudden, she hears the Candlemaker 467 00:44:56,700 --> 00:45:01,444 whispering in her mind, asking her to make a wish. And she's going to wish that this match 468 00:45:01,464 --> 00:45:08,550 was over. And that's what's going to happen. Devil Dinosaur, he'll eat Moon Girl. And he 469 00:45:08,570 --> 00:45:14,695 himself is going to burst into eldritch flames that just melt his bodily tissue like Raiders 470 00:45:14,735 --> 00:45:20,414 of the Lost Ark style, just leaving this dinosaur skeleton. Match over. What? I don't get it. 471 00:45:20,834 --> 00:45:25,135 Was Devil Dinosaur possessed or something? I don't even know what happened there. No, like 472 00:45:25,155 --> 00:45:30,857 he was more like driven insane by the Candlemaker. And it caused him to eat Moon Girl? Yep. I 473 00:45:30,937 --> 00:45:36,519 say that like even before Dorothy hears the Candlemaker like whispering in her ear and 474 00:45:36,539 --> 00:45:41,640 then, you know, she makes the wish and all that weirdness happens, that would take a while. 475 00:45:42,020 --> 00:45:46,981 So before that, Devil Dinosaur just straight up stomps Dorothy with his big old dinosaur 476 00:45:47,001 --> 00:45:53,631 foot. planning and then he's gonna let out a big victory roar like the T-Rex did at the 477 00:45:53,671 --> 00:45:58,993 end of the Jurassic Park movie. I don't think that hearing make a wish and then making a 478 00:45:59,033 --> 00:46:05,294 wish would take all that long. I mean it's not quicker than a foot dropping on you so I don't 479 00:46:05,314 --> 00:46:10,636 know but we could go ahead and leave the match there either Dorothy makes her wish and the 480 00:46:10,676 --> 00:46:16,554 candle maker causes moon girl and devil dinosaur to destroy themselves or Dorothy doesn't have 481 00:46:16,574 --> 00:46:20,455 a chance to make the wish because she's a pancake. Let's go ahead and find out which of these 482 00:46:20,475 --> 00:46:25,796 scenarios happens by inputting the stats for these characters and running 1000 simulations. 483 00:46:25,816 --> 00:46:31,898 We'll be right back with the winner. Hey G9K, hit it! Inputting data. Running calculations. 484 00:46:32,358 --> 00:46:37,540 Processing results. Simulations complete. I hate to see these two characters go up against 485 00:46:37,580 --> 00:46:41,361 each other. It would have been more fun, I think, to do a speculation where they become best 486 00:46:41,401 --> 00:46:46,231 friends and hang out together, you know? Right? It was kind of interesting just coming up with 487 00:46:46,251 --> 00:46:50,353 the stats. We kind of realized that both of these characters' powers are essentially the 488 00:46:50,393 --> 00:46:55,776 power of imagination. Like they're highly, highly versatile. Right, because Moon Girl can basically 489 00:46:55,996 --> 00:47:01,179 engineer anything she imagines, and Dorothy Spinner can manifest it. So that was pretty 490 00:47:01,199 --> 00:47:07,202 cool. We treated this matchup like a two versus two character matchup, like a mini team duel, 491 00:47:07,242 --> 00:47:12,004 which we've done before in episodes like Cloak and Dagger versus the Wonder Twins, or North 492 00:47:12,024 --> 00:47:16,378 Star and Aurora versus Hawk and Dove. Yeah, or like Daughters of the Demon versus Daughters 493 00:47:16,398 --> 00:47:23,240 of the Dragon. Yeah, we've done a few 2v2 matches before. In this case, we counted the individual 494 00:47:23,260 --> 00:47:30,102 stats for Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur, as well as Dorothy Spinner on her own, and kind of 495 00:47:30,242 --> 00:47:37,644 an amalgamation of her imaginary friends, wherein we averaged the stats of all of her imaginary 496 00:47:37,684 --> 00:47:41,845 friends and treated it as kind of like this composite being. Yeah, which was not easy. 497 00:47:42,462 --> 00:47:46,483 No, it was pretty difficult to come up with that average for the imaginary friends, but 498 00:47:46,523 --> 00:47:51,184 in the end we ended up getting win rates for each one of the characters. Dorothy Spinner 499 00:47:51,204 --> 00:47:57,286 was by far the weakest. Yes, Dorothy Spinner is hands down the weakest character I've ever 500 00:47:57,326 --> 00:48:03,047 done a duel with. I felt bad for her as I was entering these stats in. But, her imaginary 501 00:48:03,088 --> 00:48:08,389 friend creatures were actually really powerful, more powerful than either Moon Girl or Devil 502 00:48:08,409 --> 00:48:13,239 Dinosaur on their own. And- kind of wiped the floor with both of them individually, winning 503 00:48:13,379 --> 00:48:17,962 three quarters of all of its matches. And what was really interesting was that Moon Girl actually 504 00:48:18,002 --> 00:48:23,405 had better stats than Devil Dinosaur. Right. Just due to her heightened intelligence and 505 00:48:23,425 --> 00:48:27,948 versatility with all the inventions and stuff like that. Devil Dinosaur is strong and can 506 00:48:27,968 --> 00:48:33,110 do damage, but otherwise, you know, he's not that impressive statistically, considering 507 00:48:33,150 --> 00:48:39,910 he's kind of a one trick pony and not that bright. He's a dinosaur. It's kind of interesting because 508 00:48:39,930 --> 00:48:44,412 a lot of Dorothy's imaginary friends were also one trick ponies. But then you have someone 509 00:48:44,432 --> 00:48:48,874 like the candle maker who isn't technically an imaginary friend, but we still kind of counted 510 00:48:48,914 --> 00:48:54,476 him in the composite considering the fact that he was a manifestation from Dorothy's mind. 511 00:48:54,916 --> 00:49:00,039 And the guy could almost do anything. You can make wishes come true, essentially. Yeah, he 512 00:49:00,099 --> 00:49:05,321 definitely skewed that average. But was it enough? What do you think, Joseph? I think there's 513 00:49:05,341 --> 00:49:11,018 an interesting balance here. between how weak Dorothy is, but how strong her imaginary friends 514 00:49:11,118 --> 00:49:16,923 are. And then Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur are somewhere in between that power spectrum. So 515 00:49:17,083 --> 00:49:21,247 I think the matchup is gonna be close. I do think that the scales are ultimately gonna 516 00:49:21,287 --> 00:49:27,352 tip toward Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur though. So we did a poll on Instagram and 64% of those 517 00:49:27,372 --> 00:49:32,157 who voted, voted in favor of Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur. Do you think it's gonna be over or 518 00:49:32,237 --> 00:49:36,738 under that? I think it's going to be under that. I think it's going to be a closer match. But 519 00:49:36,758 --> 00:49:41,380 that was definitely a popularity contest poll. We even had some people ask us like, who the 520 00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:46,161 heck is Dorothy Spinner? To which case, I got to say, read and or watch Doom Patrol because 521 00:49:46,201 --> 00:49:51,843 it's awesome. You have to watch Doom Patrol on Max. It's a great show. And its final season 522 00:49:51,883 --> 00:49:57,724 is wrapping up here soon. But let's find out who won. AJ 9K, the results, please. Hey, you 523 00:49:57,804 --> 00:50:04,591 are, sir. The winner of the matchup between Dorothy Spinner and Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur 524 00:50:05,091 --> 00:50:11,076 is Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur. Hell yeah. I was hoping to see that coming. I was hoping 525 00:50:11,096 --> 00:50:18,941 she'd win this one. It was close. Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur won 57.1% of the matches 526 00:50:19,081 --> 00:50:26,006 or 571 out of 1000 compared to Dorothy Spinner and her imaginary friend who only won 42.9. 527 00:50:27,047 --> 00:50:31,354 So that was pretty close. If you had asked me leading into this. Whether or not I thought 528 00:50:31,414 --> 00:50:36,037 Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur even stood a chance against Dorothy Spinner, I would have said 529 00:50:36,057 --> 00:50:42,760 you're out of your mind. Well, it's really all about Moon Girl's intelligence, right? Considering 530 00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:48,003 that she is likely the most intelligent person in the Marvel universe, she has a lot going 531 00:50:48,023 --> 00:50:52,786 for her. Probably more than you ever realized. Way more than Dorothy Spinner, I think. It's 532 00:50:52,846 --> 00:50:57,188 not down to the intelligence. You know what it's down to? What? The fucking system, man. 533 00:50:57,428 --> 00:51:02,592 The fucking system. What? Yeah, it's like there's no way that Dorothy Spinner would go into this 534 00:51:02,652 --> 00:51:09,299 match with only one imaginary friend, but it's way too complicated to pit two characters against 535 00:51:09,339 --> 00:51:14,544 like 20. Well, that's why we had the composite imaginary friend. It's not good enough. It's 536 00:51:14,584 --> 00:51:19,448 not good enough. The system's broken. I think it sounds pretty accurate myself. But, you 537 00:51:19,468 --> 00:51:23,919 know, anytime Marvel wins. It always sounds highly accurate to me. It does make me wonder 538 00:51:23,939 --> 00:51:28,922 though, how we're gonna run the stats for next week's team duel between Doom Patrol and Guardians 539 00:51:28,942 --> 00:51:34,985 of the Galaxy if we count Dorothy Spinner as multiple beings. I don't know if we can actually. 540 00:51:35,305 --> 00:51:39,647 We might have to do a composite of her as well with the imaginary friend. That'll be interesting. 541 00:51:40,068 --> 00:51:44,810 That will be interesting. We'll have to figure that out. Considering those seven versus seven, 542 00:51:44,950 --> 00:51:50,553 matrices simulations take a long time to run. Yeah, ton of time. Even two versus two takes 543 00:51:50,593 --> 00:51:56,937 a while. Yeah. I hope you feel bad. I hope you feel bad for Dorothy Spinner. She's had a hard 544 00:51:56,977 --> 00:52:02,700 life and you don't make it any easier. Well, geez, I do feel bad for her as a character, 545 00:52:03,180 --> 00:52:07,683 but also, you know, Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur deserve this win. So there you go. All right. 546 00:52:07,703 --> 00:52:12,885 I guess if you can live with that guilt. That does it for this duel. Let us know what you 547 00:52:12,905 --> 00:52:18,268 thought about the results by writing to us at dynamicduelpodcast at gmail.com or by visiting 548 00:52:18,368 --> 00:52:23,422 us on Instagram or X. You can find links to all of our accounts by checking out our show 549 00:52:23,462 --> 00:52:29,084 notes or visiting our website at dynamicduel.com. And on our site you can also find a link to 550 00:52:29,104 --> 00:52:33,525 our Patreon page where you can join our Dynamic 2.0 tier and chat with us and fellow listeners, 551 00:52:34,045 --> 00:52:38,867 our Fantastic Four tier which gets you bonus content each month, our X-Force tier that makes 552 00:52:38,887 --> 00:52:43,208 you an executive producer of this podcast, or our newest tier that lets you join our Dynamite 553 00:52:43,308 --> 00:52:47,889 Podcast Network. If you can't join Patreon, you can still support our show by signing up 554 00:52:47,909 --> 00:52:54,112 for our e-newsletter. also at dynamicduel.com. Or you can also rate the show on Apple podcasts, 555 00:52:54,272 --> 00:53:00,416 Spotify, Podchaser, or on our website. As we mentioned earlier, our next episode is going 556 00:53:00,436 --> 00:53:06,919 to be episode 350, a big team duel between the Doom Patrol and the Guardians of the Galaxy. 557 00:53:07,339 --> 00:53:13,143 Can I wait for that? Doom Patrol is going down and it is gonna be very satisfying. I just 558 00:53:13,183 --> 00:53:18,105 imagine it's going to be like the most bizarre team duel that we've ever had. I guarantee 559 00:53:18,125 --> 00:53:21,955 it. For sure, for sure. But that does it for this episode, we want to give a big thanks 560 00:53:21,975 --> 00:53:26,958 to our executive producers Ken Johnson, John Strausky, Zachary Hepburn, Dustin Balcom, Mickey 561 00:53:26,978 --> 00:53:32,341 Mathen-Geehan, Brandon Estregard, Nathaniel Wagner, Levi Yeaton, Nick Abonto, Austin Wisselowski, 562 00:53:32,561 --> 00:53:38,204 AJ Dunkerley, Scott Camacho, and Adam Spies for helping make this podcast possible. And 563 00:53:38,224 --> 00:53:43,787 we'll talk to you guys next week. Up up and away, true believers. This episode was sponsored 564 00:53:43,807 --> 00:53:47,269 by the card game, Chronicle AI. Get it at chronicleaigame.com.